Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reaction and Discussion *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

[rteetz]

Interesting article on reviews of the movie

http://deadline.com/2017/12/star-wa...c-imdb-users-cinemascore-posttrak-1202228837/

 

[umichigan10]

Interesting article on reviews of the movie

http://deadline.com/2017/12/star-wa...c-imdb-users-cinemascore-posttrak-1202228837/

I get what they’re saying but don’t 100% agree with what they’re saying. Just because a movie makes a lot of money doesn’t make it good (the prequels made bank and they’re universally seen as poor). Outside of that it’s an interesticing read

 

[ScrapYap]

I wonder if some of the difference in people's opinions on the movie is related to how long you've been a Star Wars fan? I've been a mega Star Wars fan since the first film was released in 1977 and I absolutely hated TLJ. I could go on and on about all of the different plot points I disliked. To me, the film negates the OT. The last film in the OT is "Return of the Jedi". The rebels win, the empire is destroyed, the emperor is dead, and Darth Vader returns to the light side of the force. Then your turn the clock up 30 to 40 years later and Luke is some crotchety hermit on a planet in the outer rim who wants the Jedi to end? Not buying it. I could care less about seeing episode IX or any other Star Wars episode that comes along.

Anyway, just wondering if maybe the younger fans are more accepting of the film than us old, crotchety fans are!

You have a great point. But TLJ also negates a Star Wars movie from only two years ago. Those Star Wars fans hate this, too.

The only thing that cheers me up is reading the reviews on Rotten Tomatoes.

But don't give up yet. Chant with me: Help us, JJ Abrams. You're our only hope.

What about something like this:

The first scene of IX is Luke Skywalker appearing out of the mists. He wasn't dead at the end of TLJ. His astral projection had taught him to teleport. He's standing on a beach saying to an attractive older woman (who might have graduated high school in about 1978), "I thought you were dead." And she says to him, "Where's Rayne?"

Snoke has done things no other Force wielder could do. He established a psychic connection between Rey and Kylo - two of the most powerful Force users in history. Snoke has given Rey a vision of the future that's false. And neither of them realizes that Snoke is the one behind this. Snoke can manipulate the mind in ways we've never seen. When Luke probes the mind of a sleeping Kylo, he senses a darkness that he's never felt. That wasn't Kylo. It was Snoke, in Kylo's mind - but Luke doesn't recognize it. Snoke is in Luke's mind, too. It's only Leia who has had an inkling, when she says to Han, "It was Snoke."

Luke, who refused to kill Vader, has even the slightest impulse to destroy Kylo? That wasn't Luke. It was an idea Snoke implanted in Luke's mind. He's implanted other ideas, too. He's implanted a false memory in Luke's mind - a vision of two dead bodies on a beach - a mother and young daughter. They're incinerated, just like Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen. Definitely dead. And the oppressive feeling that it was Luke's own fault. Snoke has implanted in Luke the idea that he should disconnect from the Force and go away. This is perfect for Snoke. Now he can rise without interference.

At the moment of Snoke's death, Luke sees the truth. And through the Force, he can feel that his wife is alive and can go to her. He knows where his daughter is, too. Because his daughter is very much a part of this story.


JJ Abrams is going to pick up the broken pieces of TLJ and give us the continuation of the saga that TFA promised.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

You're so right.

Why didn't Yoda come back to fry the Emperor? If a Force Ghost can call a massive lightning bolt to ignite an ancient sacred Jedi site, why doesn't he Emperor come back and fry everyone? Where is Kenboi? Why isn't he back to fry Snoke? Rian Johnson thought, "Cool! Yoda can be as irreverent as everyone else in this movie. Risky! A new direction!" But it makes no sense.

I don't think it's true that Star Wars fans don't like this movie because it's new and different. We don't like it because it's inconsistent and stupid.

Original, first generation fans were used to Star Wars changing directions from the very beginning. After that kiss for luck as Luke and Leia swung across the bridge, a lot of us were expecting romance down the road. Brother and sister? What?? Vader is pater? What?

Millions of us read and loved the Zahn novels. Throwing that out of canon was a Huge New Direction. No functional marriage for Han and Leia? Okay. The three kids they had - gone? Okay. Luke, successfully passing on what he has learned, as Yoda told him. But he didn't. Okay. Marrying the massively intriguing Emperor's Hand, Mara Jade. Mara gone. Okay. Their son Ben gone. Okay. All okay. We swallowed that and loved FORCE AWAKENS anyway. We can deal with being surprised, with risks, with new directions. We are not limited. Unwillingness to be surprised or accept a new direction is NOT why Star Wars fans don't like THE LAST JEDI.

TLJ had no cohesion with TFA. And, as you say, TLJ dropped almost everything introduced by TFA. It felt like enormous hubris to break every promise TFA made, massive storytelling laziness to drop every thread TFA had woven, a thumbing of the nose to Abrams and Star Wars fans generally to cast all that aside.

If you go to a movie to enjoy the movie, you'll enjoy TLJ. If you go to a Star Wars movie for a story that doesn't insult your intelligence, characters who develop logically, a plot that evolves consistently with what came before, a film that feels like Star Wars (which, for many of us, all the others did -- different in tone and quality as they were) - you might be disappointed.

Emperor can't come back as Force ghost, Sith can't become Force ghosts - why they are so focused on extending their mortal lives

Though agree with the larger point

 

[rteetz]

You have a great point. But TLJ also negates a Star Wars movie from only two years ago. Those Star Wars fans hate this, too.

The only thing that cheers me up is reading the reviews on Rotten Tomatoes.

But don't give up yet. Chant with me: Help us, JJ Abrams. You're our only hope.

What about something like this:

The first scene of IX is Luke Skywalker appearing out of the mists. He wasn't dead at the end of TLJ. His astral projection had taught him to teleport. He's standing on a beach saying to an attractive older woman (who might have graduated high school in about 1978), "I thought you were dead." And she says to him, "Where's Rayne?"

Snoke has done things no other Force wielder could do. He established a psychic connection between Rey and Kylo - two of the most powerful Force users in history. Snoke has given Rey a vision of the future that's false. And neither of them realizes that Snoke is the one behind this. Snoke can manipulate the mind in ways we've never seen. When Luke probes the mind of a sleeping Kylo, he senses a darkness that he's never felt. That wasn't Kylo. It was Snoke, in Kylo's mind - but Luke doesn't recognize it. Snoke is in Luke's mind, too. It's only Leia who has had an inkling, when she says to Han, "It was Snoke."

Luke, who refused to kill Vader, has even the slightest impulse to destroy Kylo? That wasn't Luke. It was an idea Snoke implanted in Luke's mind. He's implanted other ideas, too. He's implanted a false memory in Luke's mind - a vision of two dead bodies on a beach - a mother and young daughter. They're incinerated, just like Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen. Definitely dead. And the oppressive feeling that it was Luke's own fault. Snoke has implanted in Luke the idea that he should disconnect from the Force and go away. This is perfect for Snoke. Now he can rise without interference.

At the moment of Snoke's death, Luke sees the truth. And through the Force, he can feel that his wife is alive and can go to her. He knows where his daughter is, too. Because his daughter is very much a part of this story.


JJ Abrams is going to pick up the broken pieces of TLJ and give us the continuation of the saga that TFA promised.

JJ was executive producer of The Last Jedi so it’s not like he wasn’t involved in the making of this film. He knew the route they were going and obviously was okay with it.

 

[umichigan10]

JJ was executive producer of The Last Jedi so it’s not like he wasn’t involved in the making of this film. He knew the route they were going and obviously was okay with it.

Not to mention lucasfilm ultimately has the story laid out for the trilogy.

Also J.J. is a notoriously safe director so I guess I’m supposed to chant and hope for a rehash?

 

[rteetz]

Not to mention lucasfilm ultimately has the story laid out for the trilogy.

Also J.J. is a notoriously safe director so I guess I’m supposed to chant and hope for a rehash?

The script for 9 should be done if not close to being done. The script for The Last Jedi was done at the premiere for TFA.

 

[TomServo27]

Interesting article on reviews of the movie

http://deadline.com/2017/12/star-wa...c-imdb-users-cinemascore-posttrak-1202228837/

From that article

Star Wars: The Last Jedi. The sequel earned its third straight A from CinemaScore after The Force Awakens two years ago and last December’s Rogue One. And on ComScore/Screen Engine, Last Jedi earned an 89% overall positive score and a five-star rating from moviegoers. That’s in the wheelhouse of what Force Awakens earned (90% overall positive/ 4 1/2 stars) and Rogue One (91% positive, 4 1/2 stars). These are scientific, statistically accumulated audience exit polls that studios can take to the bank, and which they rely upon to deconstruct various elements of a film’s opening.

Much more scientific way than looking at rotten tomatoes audience score or IMDb.

 

[Aurora0427]

I haven’t read through the entire thread yet.... I’m going to tonight. We saw TLJ this morning, and this is the only place I can come where people get it. I feel gutted. Just gutted. I didn’t think the movie was all that great. It felt disjointed. There were highlights- I thought Rey was wonderful, loved Yoda, Poe and Leia. Oh my hero, Leia. The last scene broke my heart. It was set up so perfectly for Carrie and Leia to shine in 9, and now that’s been taken away because Carrie is dead. I had to bite my lips to keep from sobbing uncontrollably. Not only is Luke gone, but Leia will not get her story. I can’t even talk about what happened to Luke. As we were leaving, I told my husband “I feel like all my childhood heroes are dead.”

I’m probably being melodramatic, but these movies and these characters have meant so much to me for 37 years. I kind of wish Star Wars had ended on Endor and they all lived happily ever after. I think for me, I may just have to go with that.

That’s all I have right now. So many feelings.

 

[Aurora0427]

Ok a few things after sleeping on it.

Spoiler: Spoiler

1. BB-9E really wasn’t in the movie much at all after being pushed in merchandise.

2. Phasma didn’t have a huge role in TFA and didn’t have a big role in the one either. She’s now gone.

3. I loved having Yoda in the movie.

4. I’ve got to think Rey is not just a nobody.

5. Cherie didn’t have many appearances.

6. Mark Hamill was great in this movie.

7. What the hell happens to Leia? Kathleen Kennedy has said she’s not in episode 9 and she didn’t die in 8. I was so prepared for her to die and then she didn’t.

Totally agree with all points. The first thing I said to my dad as we got up was “What the hell are they gonna do about Leia?” That last scene is set up to be Leia’s movie. Han and Luke are gone. I hope Kathleen Kennedy is wrong and CGI is even better and somehow Leia is back.

I felt crushed for her... her son is a mass murdering dark side psychopath, her husband and brother are dead, the resistance is decimated. And all of this 30 years after Alderaan is destroyed, she’s tortured by Darth Vader and then has to deal with him being her dad. I mean, no happy endings.

 

[rteetz]

Totally agree with all points. The first thing I said to my dad as we got up was “What the hell are they gonna do about Leia?” That last scene is set up to be Leia’s movie. Han and Luke are gone. I hope Kathleen Kennedy is wrong and CGI is even better and somehow Leia is back.

I felt crushed for her... her son is a mass murdering dark side psychopath, her husband and brother are dead, the resistance is decimated. And all of this 30 years after Alderaan is destroyed, she’s tortured by Darth Vader and then has to deal with him being her dad. I mean, no happy endings.

I think Luke will be back in 9 as a force ghost but I could be wrong.

 

[Aurora0427]

Good thought! I didn’t think of it as paralleling Yoda.

It totally reminded me of Yoda when Luke first met him!

 

[Aurora0427]

I know I'm not the only one saying this, but they kind of backed themselves into a corner regarding Leia. They've already said they won't be including her digitally in Episode 9, which means she is either going to die offscreen or just not be shown, only mentioned. And neither feels right for a character this important when they had a number of chances to give her the heroic death she'd deserve in this film.

I completely agree... I kept waiting for that heroic death for Leia. On the other hand, I don’t think I can handle seeing my hero die onscreen, after already watching Han and Luke die.

I’ve said this 100 times.... Carrie's death is just awful for so many reasons, and it just means Leia’s story is unfinished with an ending that was never intended.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I completely agree... I kept waiting for that heroic death for Leia. On the other hand, I don’t think I can handle seeing my hero die onscreen, after already watching Han and Luke die.

I’ve said this 100 times.... Carrie's death is just awful for so many reasons, and it just means Leia’s story is unfinished with an ending that was never intended.

I wonder if they would have done things differently if Carried had died earlier and they could rework things .... obviously easy to say in hindsight but if she piloted the cruiser to hyperspace and sacrificed herself that way and then they have Luke live on to episode 9 it would make for a better story

Obviously a very minor point when compared to her actual death

 

[akadada]

You're so right.

I don't think it's true that Star Wars fans don't like this movie because it's new and different. We don't like it because it's inconsistent and stupid.

....

Millions of us read and loved the Zahn novels. Throwing that out of canon was a Huge New Direction. No functional marriage for Han and Leia? Okay. The three kids they had - gone? Okay. Luke, successfully passing on what he has learned, as Yoda told him. But he didn't. Okay. Marrying the massively intriguing Emperor's Hand, Mara Jade. Mara gone. Okay. Their son Ben gone. Okay. All okay. We swallowed that and loved FORCE AWAKENS anyway. We can deal with being surprised, with risks, with new directions. We are not limited. Unwillingness to be surprised or accept a new direction is NOT why Star Wars fans don't like THE LAST JEDI.

TLJ had no cohesion with TFA. And, as you say, TLJ dropped almost everything introduced by TFA. It felt like enormous hubris to break every promise TFA made, massive storytelling laziness to drop every thread TFA had woven, a thumbing of the nose to Abrams and Star Wars fans generally to cast all that aside.

If you go to a movie to enjoy the movie, you'll enjoy TLJ. If you go to a Star Wars movie for a story that doesn't insult your intelligence, characters who develop logically, a plot that evolves consistently with what came before, a film that feels like Star Wars (which, for many of us, all the others did -- different in tone and quality as they were) - you might be disappointed.

Everything you said sums it up for me...well done.

 

[DisneyFanThi]

I feel like a lot of issues that people may have could be connected to all of the fan theories that exploded after the end of TFA. These theories were so compelling they sort of built a life of their own and there was an expectation that things would happen. We expected Rey's parents to be special. We expected Snoke to be the ultimate big bad. When these things didn't happen it sort of threw people off. I think the message that was trying to be conveyed was that anyone can be special and that power and evil are not derived from your bloodline. It is a refreshing take, but it can also be jarring since this saga has driven by the Skywalker clan for the better part of 40 years. The second viewing of this movie helped my opinion of it since with the expectations gone I could appreciate the movie for it's own unique addition to the Star Wars Pantheon. Also not saying that this is Empire, but when it first came out the reaction was pretty polarizing too, and we know where it ranks now.

 

[Q-man]

Pretty good for a middle movie.

With the StarWars name that won't show up until we see how many go to second, third, ??? showings.

 

[Q-man]

I just don't care about either of them. Bye, Felicia, ya know? I mean does anyone give 2 flying fluffs about Finn?

What is so unbelievable about a janitor turned storm trooper that can sneak onto every First Order ship/weapon and know how to disable its weaponry?

Now, he's a great pilot now that was taken down by solder jockey Rose hitting his ship with her's. You know, bullet on bullet. What they both lived? Crazy!

 

[Q-man]

Also you can think anything is a “rip off” if you dig into it too deep. The casino wasn’t Jabbas palace at all, and I don’t think del torros character is lando because I don’t think he betrayed them. His direct words were “we got caught, I cut a deal”. It wasn’t that he set them up from what i picked up on, I thought it was the imperial droid could detect BB-8 under the box

Okay, this was bad wording on my part with 'betrayal'.

I had no choice, they came right before you did. I'm sorry.

LC-Empire Strikes Back

 

[TomServo27]

With the StarWars name that won't show up until we see how many go to second, third, ??? showings.

That was purely a comment on the opening weekend. I was just saying that to have an opening close to the first is pretty good. I’m sure Disney is happy with that. We will see if maintains that momentum like TFW did.