State of Fast Pass Return (or replacement)

[ChipnDale79]

2016 numbers were approx. 53,000,000 total park visits for the 4 parks. Or, 147,000 per day on average.

so that means with all that extra cash they're bringing in, they'll really enhance the guests experience...right?

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

Yes please stay away, everyone.

Haha I feel the same. Anyone that wants to bail on WDW based on these rumours is totally free to do so in my books

 

[Jonfw2]

Based on 2019 attendance numbers (some would be park hoppers but it’s the only reference we have)
MK had 20,000,000+
Animal Kingdom 13,000,000+
Epcot 12,000,000+
Hollywood Studios 11,000,000+
That is 56,000,000, divided by 365 = 153,000ish
With some of that pool being park hoppers, I’d say 100,000 per day is a pretty solid attendance estimate.

Thank you! And with those numbers, 10,000 guests a day buying Premier Passes might be low.

 

[Marionnette]

100,000 average visitors over 4 parks? is that really the numbers they were pulling?

According to this article the number of daily park visits averaged 161,034 in 2019. That does not take into consideration the number of guests who visited multiple parks in a single day. But it's quite possible that there are 100,000 guests per day based on those statistics.

https://disneynews.us/disney-parks-attendance/

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

Thank you! And with those numbers, 10,000 guests a day buying Premier Passes might be low.

Absolutely. Personally, I have no issue with a paid FastPass system being rolled out. But I doubt very highly it will be the same as Disney Premier Access in Paris (or Shanghai). Literally no two Disney resort properties use the exact same FastPass system. Each is tailored to the audience/market. WDW is the marquee resort property and has more resorts, more guests and more complications to consider than anywhere else.

While I know that WDW has been “add on” crazy for years, I don’t think they are foolish enough to completely alienate their onsite/loyal guests. They are masters of price elasticity. Boo Bash is an excellent example. Many here felt like it was too $$$ but that didn’t stop it from selling well and selling out on several dates.

I feel Disney will use FastPasses as a way to incentivize staying onsite. And possible tier the passes to give greater benefit to DVC/Deluxe resort guests. They’re paving the way with the Extra Evening Time (or whatever it’s called) lol.

 

[Jonfw2]

Absolutely. Personally, I have no issue with a paid FastPass system being rolled out. But I doubt very highly it will be the same as Disney Premier Access in Paris (or Shanghai). Literally no two Disney resort properties use the exact same FastPass system. Each is tailored to the audience/market. WDW is the marquee resort property and has more resorts, more guests and more complications to consider than anywhere else.

While I know that WDW has been “add on” crazy for years, I don’t think they are foolish enough to completely alienate their onsite/loyal guests. They are masters of price elasticity. Boo Bash is an excellent example. Many here felt is like was too $$$ but that didn’t stop it from selling well and selling out on several dates.

I feel Disney will use FastPasses as a way to incentivize staying onsite. And possible tier the passes to give greater benefit to DVC/Deluxe resort guests. They’re paving the way with the Extra Evening Time (or whatever it’s called) lol.

Well said. I'm a financial professional and I have a message in to our Disney analyst to see what her thoughts on this are.

 

[Grasshopper2016]

Bob CHEAPek has done so much damage in such a short amount of time. To green light these terrible terrible ideas, and expect it to work.

Honest question: Do we think these decisions are made or approved by the CEO? Disney is a huge company, of which the parks are only one division. (And WDW is just one park, albeit the flagship.) I get that the CEO sets the overall tone, and that tone affects these sorts of decisions. But I'm genuinely curious whether the CEO himself would be involved in this sort of decision.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Honest question: Do we think these decisions are made or approved by the CEO? Disney is a huge company, of which the parks are only one division. (And WDW is just one park, albeit the flagship.) I get that the CEO sets the overall tone, and that tone affects these sorts of decisions. But I'm genuinely curious whether the CEO himself would be involved in this sort of decision.

I think you answered it, they set the tone, and i would bet if a decision is made that would effect the shift of its parks, he would be made aware of that.

 

[Jonfw2]

Honest question: Do we think these decisions are made or approved by the CEO? Disney is a huge company, of which the parks are only one division. (And WDW is just one park, albeit the flagship.) I get that the CEO sets the overall tone, and that tone affects these sorts of decisions. But I'm genuinely curious whether the CEO himself would be involved in this sort of decision.

Great question. It's different at all companies. Some CEOs absolutely greenlight decisions like this at this level. Others fully trust their individual leaders to handle their own areas. But the bottom line is, Chapek has the final word on the overall budget. He may not tell Parks how to make or save money, but he's definitely telling them to do both at this point.

What we DO know is that (if you saw the awesome series on Disney+) past CEO's have absolutely personally greenlighted and cancelled projects.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

Well said. I'm a financial professional and I have a message in to our Disney analyst to see what her thoughts on this are.

I work in the financial industry as well. It’s fascinating to analyze from a business perspective. Disney is accountable to their shareholders ahead of their guests. The business case for some level of paid FastPass is a no brainer. But they also need to keep guests onsite at Deluxe resorts with increasingly climbing prices (another great source of revenue….10 years ago a Theme Park View CL room at the Poly was like $500….now it is $1200+). That’s why I see them adding “free” FastPasses as a resort guest or loyal guest (AP/DVC) benefit as well.

 

[ForWhomTheMouseTolls]

2016 numbers were approx. 53,000,000 total park visits for the 4 parks. Or, 147,000 per day on average.

Some of those are the same people visiting multiple parks in the same days. Those are visitors, not individuals.

 

[Jonfw2]

Some of those are the same people visiting multiple parks in the same days. Those are visitors, not individuals.

Yes...and?

 

[Roxyfire]

As of October 2021, DVC will be getting the evening extra magic hours 2.0 benefit (yes, I know this was previously available to ALL guests, not just deluxe) that is potentially more valuable than the previous iteration of it since it will include a lot fewer people. This helps take the sting out of a possible paid-FP program since the wait times at applicable parks should be dramatically reduced during EMH2.0, in theory.

With that said, I'd be shocked if Disney didn't include some free element of the new FP program for hotel guests, including DVC. They'd be extremely foolish not to. Let's not get ahead of ourselves though. Maybe sharpen the pitchforks, but don't start marching just yet.

I wonder, though, if they will somehow tie a free FP+ benefit to direct ownership. Thereby removing possibility of it being used by resale/renters. That could cause some angst for sure.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

Some of those are the same people visiting multiple parks in the same days. Those are visitors, not individuals.

Do you really think more than 50,000 people per day are park hopping when it isn’t included in base ticket prices?

 

[mom2rtk]

- Disney has been conducting live system tests of the “new program” (whatever FastPass will become) and it hasn’t been playing nicely with other systems. And it can’t successfully launch until it integrates with the other systems.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that's the case. But how do we know that's what happened yesterday? I'm pretty sure Disney didn't post that on the parks blog.

 

[Nabas]

What we do know:

1. WDW has suspended FP+. Insiders (who have been correct in the past) say FP+ is not coming back.
2. Disney’s international theme parks have or are instituting Premier Pass, which includes a pay-for-express-access element for attractions. At DLP, for example, this has been announced as costing €8-15 (about $10-20) per person per attraction.
3. DLP has announced that 8 attractions will initially be included in Premier Pass.
4. Disney CEO Bob Chapek has repeatedly spoken about his goal to increase per Guest spending. This includes ending sacred programs such as Annual Pass at Disneyland.

People are simply drawing conclusions based on the best available information.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

I wouldn't be surprised to see that's the case. But how do we know that's what happened yesterday? I'm pretty sure Disney didn't post that on the parks blog.

Remy is Up is a poster here on the DISboards that has sources with info on the tests. He updated regarding yesterday's test.

 

[mom2rtk]

Remy is Up is a poster here on the DISboards that has sources with info on the tests. He updated regarding yesterday's test.

He also said he thinks FP+ is coming back. And I strongly believe that's not happening. So I'll have to wait and see what I think of his reports. Nothing personal. Just skeptical.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

What we do know:

1. WDW has suspended FP+. Insiders (who have been correct in the past) say FP+ is not coming back.
2. Disney’s international theme parks have or are instituting Premier Pass, which includes a pay-for-express-access element for attractions. At DLP, for example, this has been announced as costing €8-15 (about $10-20) per person per attraction.
3. DLP has announced that 8 attractions will initially be included in Premier Pass.
4. Disney CEO Bob Chapek has repeatedly spoken about his goal to increase per Guest spending. This includes ending sacred programs such as Annual Pass at Disneyland.

People are simply drawing conclusions based on the best available information.

A *slight* correction to point 2. Some of the Disney parks, both domestic and international, have featured a paid FastPass option for years. MaxPass at Disneyland since January 2017 and Disney Premier Access at Shanghai Disneyland since March 2017. All Disney resort properties worldwide use DIFFERENT FastPass systems with no two systems being identical (not even Disney Premier Access - it's different in Shanghai than the announced Paris system).

 

[jkh36619]

I posted this on another board but I thought I'd say it here as well. I just don't think the premier pass makes sense for a long term destination like WDW. If you were were going to Universal or DL for a couple of days, sure, pony up the cash. But at WDW where you are going to be for a week to 10 days...I dont see it. Not saying they would make additional passes available for purchase, but I don't see a full blown paid ride system.