The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[AquaDame]

When cruising was paused mid-March last year how many people thought we would have a vaccine 9 months later? I'm guessing nobody. As I recall people across all social media platforms were adamant it would take years to develop a vaccine. Now we're not allowed to question how fast these vaccines were developed? It's all so odd.

I don't think many realized how quickly the mRNA vaccine could be altered from SARS/MERS to fit the bill: https://www.healthline.com/health-n...uickly#The-vaccine-technology-already-existed

I certainly thought it would take years; lots of people were distrustful of how fast it all came together but many articles have come out since late last year explaining it. FWIW I wasn't sure I'd take it back in December, then thought I only wanted the J&J, now I'm comfortable having had both doses of Pfizer. Hopefully it continues to work for a long time (results show efficacy are still going strong for the first group to take it, though it is marginally less for a few notable mutations).

I never caught covid socially, so this was my "out" if you will. Had I caught it maybe I wouldn't have jumped at the chance, but a few of my relatives who also had it chose to also get vaccinated when it was their turn as their doctors said there are still benefits to doing so.

 

[Intr3pid]

Not to get on a sidebar here, but a lot of that has to do with how Canada deals with the Pharmaceutical industry.

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/15/987787702/behind-the-relatively-slow-vaccine-rollout-in-canada

If you don't want to read the whole thing, this is the interesting snippet:



A lot of people here in the US all want Canada's pricing structure, but, that can come at a cost. Thomas Sowell has a famous quote that "There are no solutions, just trade-offs". Say what you want about the US and our individualistic nature to make the pandemic worse, but our logistical, manufacturing, and entrepreneurial nature have been big strengths in the vaccine rollout.

Not saying one system or the other is better or worse, but that there are trade-off's in any system.

Now, if I were the US, maybe I'd negotiate with Canada for some vaccine shipments in turn for some lower cost drugs and reopening of ports???

It's the same reason why the US doesn't have a semi-conductor foundry anymore and is now caught in a chip shortage.

It doesn't make economic sense to have a multi-billion-dollar facility in Canada making just a few million flu shots every year. And the export market is brutal because India's Serum Institute can produce drugs at a cost of cents on a dollar that Canada (or US) will.

 

[DCLMP]

I don't think many realized how quickly the mRNA vaccine could be altered from SARS/MERS to fit the bill: https://www.healthline.com/health-n...uickly#The-vaccine-technology-already-existed

I certainly thought it would take years; lots of people were distrustful of how fast it all came together but many articles have come out since late last year explaining it. FWIW I wasn't sure I'd take it back in December, then thought I only wanted the J&J, now I'm comfortable having had both doses of Pfizer. Hopefully it continues to work for a long time (results show efficacy are still going strong for the first group to take it, though it is marginally less for a few notable mutations).

I never caught covid socially, so this was my "out" if you will. Had I caught it maybe I wouldn't have jumped at the chance, but a few of my relatives who also had it chose to also get vaccinated when it was their turn as their doctors said there are still benefits to doing so.

If I ever get the vaccine I would get the Pfizer. It's the one my Occ health was administering, My co-workers that got it haven't had any issues. The only reason I knew I had Covid was from an antibody test. I'm sure they're a lot of people like me walking around oblivious to fact that they are immune. I had my antibody test through my occ health, but I've seen them offered at the grocery store clinics for 25 dollars. Some countries are requiring a vaccine or a positive antibody test for entry.

Even if I wasn't immune I would have held off. I don't get flu shots and I'm not one to take medication. I'm also very low risk.

 

[DCLMP]

Nope, we are just calling out the phony reasons.

I wasn't aware people needed a reason.

 

[go oilers go]

Pfizer and Moderna (and J&J) had a hard time sending us the promised vaccines they were supposed to send us since the beginning of the vaccination process. To this day, Moderna still struggles to meet the terms of the contract. Pfizer has been able to compensate a little bit for the delays lately and promised more doses until the end of June, and more in July. With AstraZeneca being available to anyone who is willing to get it, things have started going a little bit faster ...

But to this day, outside of AZ (open to 45+), vaccination is not open to the general public under the age of 60, unless they have severe medical conditions or unless they work with a vulnerable "clientele".

I don't think we will receive any J&J until the end of this month. We have not received a single one yet.

Due to the shortage of doses, the delay between the two shots is still 16 weeks. The amount of Canadians who have received their 2nd dose is currently at 0,5% if I am not mistaken.

Finally got my first dose today! July 16 is my next expected dose.

 

[mevelandry]

Finally got my first dose today! July 16 is my next expected dose.

Oh! You got less than 16 weeks between the two! Good!

I got vaccinated three weeks ago and my second shot will be a few days after your 2nd shot.

 

[go oilers go]

Oh! You got less than 16 weeks between the two! Good!

I got vaccinated three weeks ago and my second shot will be a few days after your 2nd shot.

Well he did mention the date is just an estimate lol. Alberta has 24% vaccinated with one dose and 6% with both doses...long way to go, but trending the right way. Now if only we weren’t the Covid embarrassment of Canada I’d feel better

 

[mevelandry]

Well he did mention the date is just an estimate lol. Alberta has 24% vaccinated with one dose and 6% with both doses...long way to go, but trending the right way. Now if only we weren’t the Covid embarrassment of Canada I’d feel better

Ok. Here they give us an appointment right away for the second dose.

Hey, our province was going so bad during the two first waves... Who are we to judge?

 

[soniam]

It's the same reason why the US doesn't have a semi-conductor foundry anymore and is now caught in a chip shortage.

Actually, there are several semiconductor foundries in the US. There are 2 in Austin, TX. All of Intel’s fabs are in the US. The chip shortage is affecting every country, not just the US. It’s really affecting companies, not countries. There is a large shortage for some auto manufacturers, because they dumped their semiconductor slots at the beginning of the pandemic. The consumer product makers snatched the slots due to extremely high demand for their products. There has been a smaller shortage of materials and actual chips due to shut downs/slow downs due to the pandemic and the bad weather in February in Texas. The demand for products has greatly increased. The US government doesn’t fund or invest in semiconductor manufacturing much at all. It’s left to the actual semiconductor manufacturers, unlike some medical and scientific research.

 

[DCLMP]

Actually, there are several semiconductor foundries in the US. There are 2 in Austin, TX. All of Intel’s fabs are in the US. The chip shortage is affecting every country, not just the US. It’s really affecting companies, not countries. There is a large shortage for some auto manufacturers, because they dumped their semiconductor slots at the beginning of the pandemic. The consumer product makers snatched the slots due to extremely high demand for their products. There has been a smaller shortage of materials and actual chips due to shut downs/slow downs due to the pandemic and the bad weather in February in Texas. The demand for products has greatly increased. The US government doesn’t fund or invest in semiconductor manufacturing much at all. It’s left to the actual semiconductor manufacturers, unlike some medical and scientific research.

I believe Tawain is moving some manufacturing plants to the US.

 

[soniam]

I believe Tawain is moving some manufacturing plants to the US.

It wouldn't be moving; it would be expanding. Also, it's not Taiwan; it's an independent company called TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company). Starting fabs in the US is very expensive and difficult though, due to environmental concerns.

 

[Intr3pid]

Actually, there are several semiconductor foundries in the US. There are 2 in Austin, TX. All of Intel’s fabs are in the US. The chip shortage is affecting every country, not just the US. It’s really affecting companies, not countries. There is a large shortage for some auto manufacturers, because they dumped their semiconductor slots at the beginning of the pandemic. The consumer product makers snatched the slots due to extremely high demand for their products. There has been a smaller shortage of materials and actual chips due to shut downs/slow downs due to the pandemic and the bad weather in February in Texas. The demand for products has greatly increased. The US government doesn’t fund or invest in semiconductor manufacturing much at all. It’s left to the actual semiconductor manufacturers, unlike some medical and scientific research.

That's true. I was referring to the large capacity players - at the scale of vaccine production for comparison. Intel's capacity, for example, is just a quarter of Samsung's and about 25% of it is still not in the US. It is also 100% captive at the moment, meaning it doesn't help with the shortage. None of the big 5 - Samsung, TSMC, Micron, SK Hynix, and Kioxia - have much in the US. And certainly nothing of the bleeding edge, such as 5nm.

The demand and supply issues are coincidentally highly correlated to the pandemic. As you pointed out, supply chains are stretched due to lockdowns, while the demand for all sorts of components is through the roof. Very similar story on the vaccine side.

The difference is, Pfizer can produce in the US and charge the price it needs under patent protection. The foundries in Asia, however, wouldn't be able to compete on cost if they moved production to the US and suddenly the demand and supply issues went away.

 

[o&smom]

My personal opinion is this;
Get the vaccine or don’t. But when private business (like cruises) require customers to be vaccinated and your not vaccinated don’t cry/complain about not being able to participate. Your choice was not to be vaccinated. You are responsible for the end result of your choice.

I feel like this does not take into account those of us who already had Covid. Studies, so far, show natural protection as good as , or maybe even better, than the vaccines. If I already had Covid (luckily it was mild), and I now have protection, it is not warranted for me to get the vaccine. Natural infection from past diseases has meant not being able to spread it to others as well.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Disney Cruise Line have released new information for the UK summer 2021 sailings which includes information about vaccines and testing

Disney Magic At Sea Health And Safety Information Updated April 23

• COVID-19 Vaccination: In order to sail, Guests 18 years of age and older must be fully vaccinated against COVID-19, as defined by the National Health Service (NHS). The NHS currently defines “fully vaccinated” as 7 days after the final dose. Disney Cruise Line will contact Guests prior to sailing with instructions on how to show proof of this vaccination status.
• Pre-Trip COVID-19 Testing: Guests under 18 years of age are not required to be vaccinated, but must provide proof of a negative COVID-19 PCR test result (paid for by the Guest) taken between 5 days and 24 hours prior to the date you set sail. Disney Cruise Line has secured a special discounted rate through a third-party vendor for PCR tests and will contact Guests prior to sailing with instructions on how to complete and submit their test results. Guests may obtain their PCR test from the third-party vendor or any qualified testing supplier.
• Embarkation COVID-19 Testing: All Guests, including those who have been vaccinated, are required to undergo an antigen COVID-19 rapid test administered by a third party in the terminal prior to boarding. Anyone testing positive will undergo a second test to verify the results. All tests administered at the terminal will be at the expense of Disney Cruise Line. Guests with positive COVID-19 test results, as well as those in their travel party, will be denied boarding.
• Temperature Checks and Questionnaires: Daily temperature checks and health questionnaires are required for all Guests and Crew Members.

 

[n2mm]

I feel like this does not take into account those of us who already had Covid. Studies, so far, show natural protection as good as , or maybe even better, than the vaccines. If I already had Covid (luckily it was mild), and I now have protection, it is not warranted for me to get the vaccine. Natural infection from past diseases has meant not being able to spread it to others as well.

my daughter-in-law and 16 year old granddaughter both got their first Pfizer shot on April 15th. Both had covid about 1 month ago. No one told them they shouldn’t. My DIL got pneumonia but recovered from covid. Granddaughter was mild. Neither had any reaction from the shot.

 

[jerry557]

Disney Cruise Line have released new information for the UK summer 2021 sailings which includes information about vaccines and testing

Disney Magic At Sea Health And Safety Information Updated April 23

• COVID-19 Vaccination: In order to sail, Guests 18 years of age and older must be fully vaccinated against COVID-19, as defined by the National Health Service (NHS). The NHS currently defines “fully vaccinated” as 7 days after the final dose. Disney Cruise Line will contact Guests prior to sailing with instructions on how to show proof of this vaccination status.
• Pre-Trip COVID-19 Testing: Guests under 18 years of age are not required to be vaccinated, but must provide proof of a negative COVID-19 PCR test result (paid for by the Guest) taken between 5 days and 24 hours prior to the date you set sail. Disney Cruise Line has secured a special discounted rate through a third-party vendor for PCR tests and will contact Guests prior to sailing with instructions on how to complete and submit their test results. Guests may obtain their PCR test from the third-party vendor or any qualified testing supplier.
• Embarkation COVID-19 Testing: All Guests, including those who have been vaccinated, are required to undergo an antigen COVID-19 rapid test administered by a third party in the terminal prior to boarding. Anyone testing positive will undergo a second test to verify the results. All tests administered at the terminal will be at the expense of Disney Cruise Line. Guests with positive COVID-19 test results, as well as those in their travel party, will be denied boarding.
• Temperature Checks and Questionnaires: Daily temperature checks and health questionnaires are required for all Guests and Crew Members.

If that's what they are going to do when they restart in the states, they are going to have a lot of cancellations. Other than die hard cruisers, who's going to pay essentially the same prices as before for this experience? Plus, even with all this testing and mandatory vaccines, they will still require masks. They will still have limited activities.

Also the temperature checks is got to be the absolute biggest waste of time and effort of anything with this pandemic. Most people who get infected with COVID don't even get a fever. Many don't even have symptoms. And even if they do, the fever is gone by taking a couple of Advil. It's stupid. Of course, that's only one of the stupid things that have now become part of the new normal.

 

[mevelandry]

Not to get on a sidebar here, but a lot of that has to do with how Canada deals with the Pharmaceutical industry.

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/15/987787702/behind-the-relatively-slow-vaccine-rollout-in-canada

If you don't want to read the whole thing, this is the interesting snippet:



A lot of people here in the US all want Canada's pricing structure, but, that can come at a cost. Thomas Sowell has a famous quote that "There are no solutions, just trade-offs". Say what you want about the US and our individualistic nature to make the pandemic worse, but our logistical, manufacturing, and entrepreneurial nature have been big strengths in the vaccine rollout.

Not saying one system or the other is better or worse, but that there are trade-off's in any system.

Now, if I were the US, maybe I'd negotiate with Canada for some vaccine shipments in turn for some lower cost drugs and reopening of ports???

My understanding is that we use to have plenty of pharmaceutical industries implanted here but the previous government (Harper) let them go and our current government have not been able to bring them back. Now, too little too late but I think they learned from their mistakes and are « re-building« but it’s not gonna happen overnight. Local industries should be able to distribute vaccines this fall.

 

[mevelandry]

I feel like this does not take into account those of us who already had Covid. Studies, so far, show natural protection as good as , or maybe even better, than the vaccines. If I already had Covid (luckily it was mild), and I now have protection, it is not warranted for me to get the vaccine. Natural infection from past diseases has meant not being able to spread it to others as well.

Recent data shows better protection when people who have been infected with COVID receive at least 1 shot. They are currently testing what the protection is with 2 shots. Everyone I know who was infected had their doctor strongly recommend getting at least the first shot (serves as a booster).

 

[mevelandry]

Disney Cruise Line have released new information for the UK summer 2021 sailings which includes information about vaccines and testing

Disney Magic At Sea Health And Safety Information Updated April 23

• COVID-19 Vaccination: In order to sail, Guests 18 years of age and older must be fully vaccinated against COVID-19, as defined by the National Health Service (NHS). The NHS currently defines “fully vaccinated” as 7 days after the final dose. Disney Cruise Line will contact Guests prior to sailing with instructions on how to show proof of this vaccination status.
• Pre-Trip COVID-19 Testing: Guests under 18 years of age are not required to be vaccinated, but must provide proof of a negative COVID-19 PCR test result (paid for by the Guest) taken between 5 days and 24 hours prior to the date you set sail. Disney Cruise Line has secured a special discounted rate through a third-party vendor for PCR tests and will contact Guests prior to sailing with instructions on how to complete and submit their test results. Guests may obtain their PCR test from the third-party vendor or any qualified testing supplier.
• Embarkation COVID-19 Testing: All Guests, including those who have been vaccinated, are required to undergo an antigen COVID-19 rapid test administered by a third party in the terminal prior to boarding. Anyone testing positive will undergo a second test to verify the results. All tests administered at the terminal will be at the expense of Disney Cruise Line. Guests with positive COVID-19 test results, as well as those in their travel party, will be denied boarding.
• Temperature Checks and Questionnaires: Daily temperature checks and health questionnaires are required for all Guests and Crew Members.

This is EXACTLY what I was expecting and hoping to see when cruises resume!

 

[lanejudy]

I feel like this does not take into account those of us who already had Covid. Studies, so far, show natural protection as good as , or maybe even better, than the vaccines. If I already had Covid (luckily it was mild), and I now have protection, it is not warranted for me to get the vaccine. Natural infection from past diseases has meant not being able to spread it to others as well.

my daughter-in-law and 16 year old granddaughter both got their first Pfizer shot on April 15th. Both had covid about 1 month ago. No one told them they shouldn’t. My DIL got pneumonia but recovered from covid. Granddaughter was mild. Neither had any reaction from the shot.

My state’s health commissioner is recommending the vaccine for those who previously had COVID-19. Levels of antibodies produced by “natural immunity” vary and are not considered to be effective against variants.