Would this annoy you? Isn't this something that is private?

[brockash]

With a typical 12 year old, yes, I agree. He is not typical. He is at about a 8-9 year old level, emotionally and cognitively, and not ready to understand the social and political nuances of government assistance. And whatever I decide to share with him, and when, is my decision, not his teachers. Their initial discussion was in front of him, about him. He wouldn't have even known to ask about this if he hadn't overheard them the first day. Whether it was gossiping or a matter of fact discussion about who was on the "free" list, it should have been had in private, away from the kids, especially by special needs teachers who should know to be extra sensitive about the differences in their students.

IMO, of course. Thank you for yours!

I don't know exactly how/what happened because like you, I wasn't there. I will just say that I never understood what a day for a teacher was like until I started working in schools (I'm not a teacher) and I have to say it's pretty insane and generally never a moment to even catch your breath, so yes there are lots of times when teachers have to communicate during the day as permission slips come in etc. (because they're on a deadline for those types of things that really dont have anything to do with their primary job, too.)

Again, I will just reiterate that it is MUCH harder to keep things secretive when there are many ppl involved and since your dn is not homeschooled and their are many ppl involved in his life, there's a much higher likelihood that things that you may personally try to keep fro him may come out completely unintentionally just by accident or because others assume he knows or they may not think of it as big of a deal as you do. It's just how things go... I wouldn't waste your time being upset about it.

 

[TreeFalls]

I did not read all the responses, but I am a foster parent, and when my foster kids (young elementary) ask about this I tell them the social workers arranged for their lunch/field trip to be paid for because they are in foster care, and it's part of taking care of them. So I tie the benefit to their foster situation, because I don't want them to think we are unable/unwilling to provide for them.

But yes, I wish teachers would be more careful what they say around kids who are in care. We have had a couple instances where kids heard not-so-nice things about their biological family at school, and they were upset.

 

[Nancyg56]

Again, I will just reiterate that it is MUCH harder to keep things secretive when there are many ppl involved and since your dn is not homeschooled and their are many ppl involved in his life, there's a much higher likelihood that things that you may personally try to keep fro him may come out completely unintentionally just by accident or because others assume he knows or they may not think of it as big of a deal as you do. It's just how things go... I wouldn't waste your time being upset about it.

And children babble about everything. I used to volunteer for Centers and holy cow! As an adult who was trusted to steer clear of sensitive situations, it was sometimes a shock that out of the blue a child would just start chatting about something that was going on at home. I would never indulge the conversation, but would move along to whatever we were working on because I felt that to do anything else would call more attention to what I think was probably a private matter, but one that the child was used to hearing discussed at home.

I do not envy educators who navigate these situation on a daily basis, however because the OP is sensitive about this situation I think it is a good idea to let the teacher know that the child overheard a conversation, and that is what spurred the questions. I rather doubt the faux pas was intentional, but it never hurts to be sure that parental boundaries are not inadvertently crossed because of a lack of communication.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

I did not read all the responses, but I am a foster parent, and when my foster kids (young elementary) ask about this I tell them the social workers arranged for their lunch/field trip to be paid for because they are in foster care, and it's part of taking care of them. So I tie the benefit to their foster situation, because I don't want them to think we are unable/unwilling to provide for them.

But yes, I wish teachers would be more careful what they say around kids who are in care. We have had a couple instances where kids heard not-so-nice things about their biological family at school, and they were upset.

That is a great response!

 

[tvguy]

Are you serious!!!! Wow. That doesn't seem right. Is it where the kids can see it or just the staff?

It doesn't seem legal according to Federal Laws, which supersede state laws, which in your link, even states public sharing of the information is illegal in CA:

https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/privacy/section_2e.asp

I'm not a lawyer, though, so if anyone cares to challenge, go right ahead.

I'm not a lawyer either. But these are schools were students NOT eligible for free breakfasts and lunches would be in the minority. I think over 90% of the students are eligible. But like I said, half of them....or more specifically....the parents of half of them, won't sign them up.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Hrrrrrm.

Ok, so let's say he didn't overhear the teacher talk about him being free. Really, they should have been more careful.

But everybody else still has to pay. How does he not notice this? Does the teacher never ever say "don't forget to bring your payment in for the field trip!"? How would your great-nephew not know his field trip was free?

 

[Lilacs4Me]

Hrrrrrm.

Ok, so let's say he didn't overhear the teacher talk about him being free. Really, they should have been more careful.

But everybody else still has to pay. How does he not notice this? Does the teacher never ever say "don't forget to bring your payment in for the field trip!"? How would your great-nephew not know his field trip was free?

I *think* the answer to what are are asking is this:

We are instructed to send in a sealed envelope with the signed permission slip and money/check, or we have the option to send in the signed permission slip and pay online through the school portal. I've used the portal option since they've had it up and running (when DS18 was still at that school, which has been 5 years now), so none of my kids bring money in an envelope. At least not since Nephew has lived with us. And even if I did, unless I put a handful of change in DS12's envelope and a $10 bill in Nephews, there wouldn't be a weight/shape difference worth speaking of.

The teacher had to have clearly said to him or in earshot of him to another teacher - "(child A) is free" in order for him to even think about wondering about it. Otherwise he would have assumed I would be paying for it just like everyone else or even more likely, wouldn't have thought about it at all. He's not much for subtleties lol, there is no way he would have picked up on a hint or subtle remark by the teacher, so whatever she said had to have been very clearly stated.

Like someone upthread so (not)nicely said - the world hasn't stopped and he isn't irrevocably damaged by this, but it would have been nice for the teachers to think about who was listening before talking in the classroom full of inquisitive (and not very nice sometimes) Middle Schoolers.

And if they don't care if the students hear them, then what is stopping them from talking about it in front of parents volunteers or the PTA President? (my questions are not directed at you, per se, just thinking more about it in general!)

 

[monsterkitty]

As a teacher, we're not allowed to know who is on free and reduced lunches. An orchestra teacher at another school used to check school instruments out to those on free and reduced lunch before she would check those instruments out to kids who were not F&R. About 5 years ago they told her they could no longer provide her with the F&R names due to privacy laws. Other than the head lunch lady who has the list, only the school secretary has that information.

Parents and students will tell us about receiving F&R lunches when we need to collect field trip money or money for anything else. I should add that 90% of our school is on F&R lunch so we just assume that most will need help in covering field trip or instrument needs.

I just need to close that 1, the teachers knew he was on free and reduced; and 2 that they were discussing the fact. Who the heck cares if a student is on free lunch?

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

The privacy of the foster child should be of the upmost importance. There has been far too much sensitive information posted about this child by the OP in this thread as well as in many other threads.

 

[allison443]

I'm not a lawyer either. But these are schools were students NOT eligible for free breakfasts and lunches would be in the minority. I think over 90% of the students are eligible. But like I said, half of them....or more specifically....the parents of half of them, won't sign them up.

In NYC there is no signing up. All students receive free lunch. I believe this is also the case in Chicago, Boston and some other cities. Helps those kids whose parents won’t sign them up.

 

[mumto3girls]

I'm a teacher and agree that the teacher in question made a mistake in discussing it within earshot of any non-staff.

You should address that with the teacher- that it's private info & should be kept confidential. If the teacher argues or seems clueless on that point, or otherwise doesn't immediately & sincerely apologize, I would quietly bring it up to the principal, in the context that some staff training needs to occur in relation to student & family privacy. In fact, since you've already talked to the teacher you might just want to do that, anyway. The staff needs to be explicitly trained that such info is confidential.

Yes. I said upthread that I would contact the teacher very calmly to see what she had to say, but if she argued with me at all I would go to the principal. And I say that as someone with children in 12th, 9th and 6th grades who has never once in all these years felt the need to contact a principal directly. That is how wrong I think what happened was, although I concede that it may have been inadvertent—teachers are overworked and clerical type stuff like this is probably something they try to handle quickly when it comes up and she may just not have realized who was around. Still shouldn’t have happened.

 

[tvguy]

In NYC there is no signing up. All students receive free lunch. I believe this is also the case in Chicago, Boston and some other cities. Helps those kids whose parents won’t sign them up.

Yes, I have heard of that. We have a city in our area that does the same. https://www.abc10.com/article/news/...st-and-lunch-no-questions-asked/103-584975064

 

[Nettester]

I would be annoyed that the teachers discussed this and he overheard them. That should be confidential information, they were not being careful about privacy.

I do think their hands were kind of tied when the boy asked direct questions. I'd assume they were caught off guard, and without really thinking it through, reacted by just trying to help clear up a lack of information or understanding. Yes, they should have found a way to deflect the questioning in the name of privacy. "Oh, I will call your home to answer any questions, your job is just to enjoy the field trip" could have been said.

 

[disykat]

I also have not known who is free or reduced lunch for about the last 10 years. (this is my second year retired, but prior to that) Field trip notices go out along with a note to let me know if your student wants to order a lunch - with a cutoff date given. Those who order get a lunch packed by the school. Payment is not mentioned and is taken care of through the cafeteria system.

At my school, the cafeteria workers know and keep track of if a free lunch student hasn't ordered a field trip lunch and try to help that along. If they suspect the family may not order, they'll find a way to make an extra, etc.

This system actually seems to work better than me having to pack extra lunches just in case. It also gives ALL families the opportunity to order sack lunches if making lunch isn't convenient.

I assume the office takes care of any other financial arrangements needed for field trips, by marking paid through the office on the cash envelope that travels from teacher to office daily. We aren't allowed to keep cash in our rooms, so it goes directly to the office when collected. Parents frequently pay through the office, so that doesn't notify teacher.

This was really unfortunate and it takes me by surprise that the teachers were involved in the payment process. Where I am, that was streamlined through the office and cafeteria for privacy reasons a decade ago.

 

[GreatLakes]

Are you serious!!!! Wow. That doesn't seem right. Is it where the kids can see it or just the staff?

It doesn't seem legal according to Federal Laws, which supersede state laws, which in your link, even states public sharing of the information is illegal in CA:

https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/privacy/section_2e.asp

I'm not a lawyer, though, so if anyone cares to challenge, go right ahead.

I have not idea of the legalities but when I was in high school the kids on reduced lunch had to tell the cashier who pullout out the list of eligible students and marked them for that day. I know this because if you are in line behind them you see it all and I witnessed it when it happened. I never thought it was really a big deal, it just is what it is.

 

[robinb]

I don’t understand the shame that seems to revolve around qualifying for a free lunch and, therefore, free field trips. IMO, it’s not a big deal and no reflection on the child or foster family.

 

[cabanafrau]

The list of students who get free lunches (and breakfasts) are posted in the cafeteria in the schools here.
One school district here pushes VERY hard here to get all eligible kids enrolled. They say only half the kids eligible are signed up. The push have because they make a lot of money on "free" lunches. $500,000 last year alone since the Federal Reimbursement is greater than the cost of providing the lunches.

EDITED: The disclosure is specific to California and required by state law to certain school officials. So not sure how they can post it though. https://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/nu/sn/mbsnp122015.asp

How do you know it's posted in the cafeteria? Have you seen it with your own eyes?

The link you posted outlines why that would fall outside CA requirements as well.

 

[cabanafrau]

I don’t understand the shame that seems to revolve around qualifying for a free lunch and, therefore, free field trips. IMO, it’s not a big deal and no reflection on the child or foster family.

It's what happens when other kids get that information -- and some of the parents and adults. I know of kids in foster situations where there have actually been hearings specifically to allow for the court to intervene where a foster family is having a tough time getting a school district to move a child to a different school because of the ramifications of bullying/shaming surrounding this very issue in the school assigned to the residence of their foster parent.

 

[tvguy]

How do you know it's posted in the cafeteria? Have you seen it with your own eyes?

The link you posted outlines why that would fall outside CA requirements as well.

We've done several stories on the free lunches over the years, so not my own eyes, on the video we shot.
But, it does occur to me that the summer* breakfast and lunch program.....which they run during the summer vacation.... would identify eligible students since those are the only ones they serve during the summer.
But like I said, since most of the student have free lunches, the minority group are the students paying for lunch.

*https://www.scusd.edu/post/kids-eat-free-summer

 

[disykat]

Here, summer lunch programs are available to anyone who shows up.

When I was a child there was absolutely no privacy. I think we even lined up separately with free and reduced in front. Hard to even believe now, but it's what I remember. When I started teaching, only staff knew. Now only lunchroom and office staff know. Privacy rules have most certainly increased everywhere I've taught.

I do really appreciate how kind most people are being towards teachers on this thread and not making an unfortunate incident an indictment on all teachers or the education system as a whole.