Would You Stay at Grand Floridian? Beach Avoidable? No Parent Bashing Please!

[Nancyg56]

I think some of your requests are reasonable, with a few exceptions.

Disney does not have any control over the size regulations. That would have to go through the Florida Wildlife Commission. It is illegal to violate the rules, even if Disney would like to appear more proactive.

Also, gators can climb fences, so fencing any water front area would be pointless from the standpoint of keeping gators out. Since gators can, and do, walk on land, sealing waterways would also not contain them.

However, adding signs, moving some recreational areas farther from the water (especially those that take place at or after sunset), and perhaps having camera systems like they do at AKL to keep people from feeding the wildlife are all reasonable.

I think that allowing cameras, adding signage, and stopping the waterfront activities after dusk would help a lot. The other suggestions were a little over reaction, IMO.

 

[declansdad]

To keep me going back to Disney World ever again, they need to do the following:

1. Post signs warning of the dangers in all known water locations.
2. Move nighttime family events to safe locations away from the water.
3. Change the size rule and hunt down all alligators, not just large ones.
4. Sweep the Lagoon and Bay Lake for alligators 3x a week.
5. Install hi-res cameras at known areas where guests are feeding alligators.
6. Throw out any guest caught feeding alligators immediately, no exceptions.
7. Add barriers/fencing along the International Gateway creek and the like.
8. Seal off ancillary waterways known to be feeding alligators into the resort waterways.

That is how a corporation that truly cares about its guests safety would act under these circumstances. That's a demonstrative action plan. That's what's necessary to get my business back after 40 years of visitation as a child and adult.

I thought you said in another thread you were done with Disney, never going back.

 

[boltjames]

Will you hold this standard for every business in the United States? Keep your tourist spending money away from any corporation that does not adhere to this set of rules, away fom National Parks that refuse to remove threat of potentially dangerous animals, and we should include snakes and venomous spiders, Away from resorts that have activities despite a potential for an accident with the wildlife that lives there?

You see, DIsney should not be held to a standard that evey other theme park, National Park, and resort is not asked to keep. I can see Florida becoming one huge alligator trap....

The reason I avoid National Parks is because I don't want to put my family in danger. Never in my life have I been camping, hiking, snorkeling, parasailing, sky diving. I take my family to Disney World to have a very safe experience, personal choice, but it's the primary motivation for going there. Man-made lakes so the can experience boating. Artificial campgrounds so they can have a feel for camping. When my kids were 11 and 12, I'd give them their room keys and send them off on their own on the monorail, they got their feel for trust and independence there, was light a right of passage. Go have a good time, have a fun night acting like big-kids, no way they could run into trouble. I mean, it's Disney World.

Now I have to worry that if they are walking from EPCOT to the Beach Club they might run into a man-eating alligator along the International Gateway walkway which runs a mile along a narrow canal and has a 5 foot embankment that's just perfect for stalking. Now I have to worry that if I send them out on Bay Lake in the little water sprites and they pause along the reeds near one of the islands they could get knocked over by an alligator. Now I have to worry that if I'm there with my other child in a stroller waiting on a dock at Wilderness Lodge at night an alligator might jump out of the shallows and attack.

Disney World is the antidote to a "national park" type vacation for millions of people. Because we feel very safe here. Not anymore.

 

[declansdad]

The reason I avoid National Parks is because I don't want to put my family in danger. Never in my life have I been camping, hiking, snorkeling, parasailing, sky diving. I take my family to Disney World to have a very safe experience, personal choice, but it's the primary motivation for going there. Man-made lakes so the can experience boating. Artificial campgrounds so they can have a feel for camping. When my kids were 11 and 12, I'd give them their room keys and send them off on their own on the monorail, they got their feel for trust and independence there, was light a right of passage. Go have a good time, have a fun night acting like big-kids, no way they could run into trouble. I mean, it's Disney World.

Now I have to worry that if they are walking from EPCOT to the Beach Club they might run into a man-eating alligator along the International Gateway walkway which runs a mile along a narrow canal and has a 5 foot embankment that's just perfect for stalking. Now I have to worry that if I send them out on Bay Lake in the little water sprites and they pause along the reeds near one of the islands they could get knocked over by an alligator. Now I have to worry that if I'm there with my other child in a stroller waiting on a dock at Wilderness Lodge at night an alligator might jump out of the shallows and attack.

Disney World is the antidote to a "national park" type vacation for millions of people. Because we feel very safe here. Not anymore.

Do you stop your family from driving on the streets or walking on the sidewalk. Disney and the national parks are no more dangerous (maybe even less dangerous) than those everyday activities.

 

[boltjames]

I thought you said in another thread you were done with Disney, never going back.

I did. And then I led off my post with the sentence "To keep me going back to Disney World ever again, they need to do the following..." which I think is consistent.

And if I did decide to reconsider my views, the Grand Floridian would be a challenge. I would probably lean towards the Contemporary Resort which has lots of safe concrete all around it. Point is, at $700 a night plus airfare and park tickets the last thing in the world I should be thinking about is an alligator attack. We don't put our children in harm's way. We choose very safe luxury resorts to avoid this kind of thing. When visiting Florida, we go to Disney World. We don't pitch a tent in the Everglades.

 

[minnie mum]

The reason I avoid National Parks is because I don't want to put my family in danger. Never in my life have I been camping, hiking, snorkeling, parasailing, sky diving. I take my family to Disney World to have a very safe experience, personal choice, but it's the primary motivation for going there. Man-made lakes so the can experience boating. Artificial campgrounds so they can have a feel for camping. When my kids were 11 and 12, I'd give them their room keys and send them off on their own on the monorail, they got their feel for trust and independence there, was light a right of passage. Go have a good time, have a fun night acting like big-kids, no way they could run into trouble. I mean, it's Disney World.

Now I have to worry that if they are walking from EPCOT to the Beach Club they might run into a man-eating alligator along the International Gateway walkway which runs a mile along a narrow canal and has a 5 foot embankment that's just perfect for stalking. Now I have to worry that if I send them out on Bay Lake in the little water sprites and they pause along the reeds near one of the islands they could get knocked over by an alligator. Now I have to worry that if I'm there with my other child in a stroller waiting on a dock at Wilderness Lodge at night an alligator might jump out of the shallows and attack.

Disney World is the antidote to a "national park" type vacation for millions of people. Because we feel very safe here. Not anymore.

Maybe you need to stop going to WDW, then. Maybe try DLR. Just stay away from the California beaches.

 

[declansdad]

I did. And then I led off my post with the sentence "To keep me going back to Disney World ever again, they need to do the following..." which I think is consistent.

And if I did decide to reconsider my views, the Grand Floridian would be a challenge. I would probably lean towards the Contemporary Resort which has lots of safe concrete all around it. Point is, at $700 a night plus airfare and park tickets the last thing in the world I should be thinking about is an alligator attack. We don't put our children in harm's way. We choose very safe luxury resorts to avoid this kind of thing. When visiting Florida, we go to Disney World. We don't pitch a tent in the Everglades.

I hate to tell you this but alligators are in more places than the everglades.

 

[boltjames]

Do you stop your family from driving on the streets or walking on the sidewalk. Disney and the national parks are no more dangerous (maybe even less dangerous) than those everyday activities.

Your straw-man arguments are not adding to the conversation.

I know how to behave on the streets of Manhattan or walking on a sidewalk in my residential neighborhood to avoid being put in harm's way. A surprise alligator attack is not something anyone can prepare for and, based on what we out-of-towners have learned this week, Disney World appears to be an alligator's paradise. And while I need to walk the streets of Manhattan to earn a living for my family and my kids need to walk the sidewalks in our neighborhood to get an education, those are worthwhile risks. Risking my toddler's life on a vacation? Be real.

 

[boltjames]

I hate to tell you this but alligators are in more places than the everglades.

The point is that Disney World is an artificial, controlled experience and, as such, should be completely safe. You seem to think that Disney World is "typical Florida" and it's not.

I'm not in the Himalayas when I'm on Expedition Everest. I'm not in outer space when I'm on Space Mountain. I'm not racing a car when I'm on Test Track. I'm not cautious about an alligator encounter when I'm lying on the beach at a $700 night Grand Floridian designed for families with small children. I'm not cautious about an alligator encounter when I'm walking at 10PM to the food court at the Carribean Beach Resort walking along water, going on tiny bridges, walking through foiliage. At least I'm not supposed to be.

 

[declansdad]

Your straw-man arguments are not adding to the conversation.

I know how to behave on the streets of Manhattan or walking on a sidewalk in my residential neighborhood to avoid being put in harm's way. A surprise alligator attack is not something anyone can prepare for and, based on what we out-of-towners have learned this week, Disney World appears to be an alligator's paradise. And while I need to walk the streets of Manhattan to earn a living for my family and my kids need to walk the sidewalks in our neighborhood to get an education, those are worthwhile risks. Risking my toddler's life on a vacation? Be real.

If you think my examples are false, you may want to look at your own unreasonable fears about places like WDW and national parks. They are no more dangerous than the streets of Manhattan.

 

[declansdad]

The point is that Disney World is an artificial, controlled experience and, as such, should be completely safe. You seem to think that Disney World is "typical Florida" and it's not.

I'm not in the Himalayas when I'm on Expedition Everest. I'm not in outer space when I'm on Space Mountain. I'm not racing a car when I'm on Test Track. I'm not cautious about an alligator encounter when I'm lying on the beach at a $700 night Grand Floridian designed for families with small children. I'm not cautious about an alligator encounter when I'm walking at 10PM to the food court at the Carribean Beach Resort walking along water, going on tiny bridges, walking through foiliage. At least I'm not supposed to be.

The attractions may not be typical Florida but the space certainly is. You are smack dab in the middle of Florida, with many lakes and waterways and undeveloped wildlife areas.

 

[ShirikiUtundu]

The point is that Disney World is an artificial, controlled experience and, as such, should be completely safe. You seem to think that Disney World is "typical Florida" and it's not.

I'm not in the Himalayas when I'm on Expedition Everest. I'm not in outer space when I'm on Space Mountain. I'm not racing a car when I'm on Test Track. I'm not cautious about an alligator encounter when I'm lying on the beach at a $700 night Grand Floridian designed for families with small children. I'm not cautious about an alligator encounter when I'm walking at 10PM to the food court at the Carribean Beach Resort walking along water, going on tiny bridges, walking through foiliage. At least I'm not supposed to be.

Perhaps the problem is in your perception.
Disney is not a fantasy utopia that is completely safe. They are open to any paying guest and this includes thieves and worse.
You are doing your children a disservice to keep up a false notion like this, and frankly, you sound exceedingly immature, which isn't helped by your usage of the phrase "man-eating alligators" at every turn.

 

[katyjeka]

The reason I avoid National Parks is because I don't want to put my family in danger. Never in my life have I been camping, hiking, snorkeling, parasailing, sky diving. I take my family to Disney World to have a very safe experience, personal choice, but it's the primary motivation for going there. Man-made lakes so the can experience boating. Artificial campgrounds so they can have a feel for camping. When my kids were 11 and 12, I'd give them their room keys and send them off on their own on the monorail, they got their feel for trust and independence there, was light a right of passage. Go have a good time, have a fun night acting like big-kids, no way they could run into trouble. I mean, it's Disney World.

Now I have to worry that if they are walking from EPCOT to the Beach Club they might run into a man-eating alligator along the International Gateway walkway which runs a mile along a narrow canal and has a 5 foot embankment that's just perfect for stalking. Now I have to worry that if I send them out on Bay Lake in the little water sprites and they pause along the reeds near one of the islands they could get knocked over by an alligator. Now I have to worry that if I'm there with my other child in a stroller waiting on a dock at Wilderness Lodge at night an alligator might jump out of the shallows and attack.

Disney World is the antidote to a "national park" type vacation for millions of people. Because we feel very safe here. Not anymore.

Wow, I don't even know how to reply to your post. Our goal is to show our girls as many National Parks and Monuments as possible. As parents we are trying to show our kids as much of the world as we can. Do you not take your kids to a movie, out to dinner, or a concert? Think of what can happen if your trapped in a movie theater or restaurant with few exits and an insane person. Every time you leave the safety of your home your children are exposed to dangers. We don't want our girls to be afraid of the beautiful parks in this country and would much rather educate them on the dangers. Nothing scares me more than to think we did not teach our girls how to be safe and able to function in this crazy world. By the way WDW can be dangerous, as we've all learned this week. Why when something like this happens can we not pray for the family and let it rest....

 

[MinnesotaMouseketeers]

DW and I have stayed there before and yes we would do it again; and as another poster typed even tomorrow.

My son is now 23 but we started taking him to WDW when he was seven. He wasn't along on this trip but we have stayed at other WDW resorts by the water with him. We were/are aware that alligators can be found everywhere there is water in FL, including WDW. And we did stay further away from shorelines than we would have because we knew this. But I DO NOT FAULT anyone that doesn't know this. I have been lucky enough to have visited many places, and I can say that I have never researched any of them for any hidden dangers before leaving home.

 

[MinnesotaMouseketeers]

The reason I avoid National Parks is because I don't want to put my family in danger. Never in my life have I been camping, hiking, snorkeling, parasailing, sky diving. I take my family to Disney World to have a very safe experience, personal choice, but it's the primary motivation for going there. Man-made lakes so the can experience boating. Artificial campgrounds so they can have a feel for camping. When my kids were 11 and 12, I'd give them their room keys and send them off on their own on the monorail, they got their feel for trust and independence there, was light a right of passage. Go have a good time, have a fun night acting like big-kids, no way they could run into trouble. I mean, it's Disney World.

...........................

Disney World is the antidote to a "national park" type vacation for millions of people. Because we feel very safe here. Not anymore.

Your children are missing out on some FANTASTIC EXPERIENCE AND SITES. Started our son out at the age of five going to State and National Parks. Both here at home and other countries.

 

[katyjeka]

Your children are missing out on some FANTASTIC EXPERIENCE AND SITES. Started our son out at the age of five going to State and National Parks. Both here at home and other countries.

Exactly!! Our kids are still talking about White Sands and Carlsbad. They were super cheap and it remains their favorite place to date. My dh is a big supporter of teaching kids to respect nature not fear it.

 

[brunette8706]

Remember when you make your choice that this wasn't an unavoidable tragedy. This wasn't a child who bolted past watchful parents into danger with no warning. If you follow basic safety precautions and stay out of the areas marked "stay out," you will be fine.

We do not have to be hateful or bash, but we should acknowledge that these people willfully and deliberately violated an important safety rule and that was the direct cause of this tragedy. It was not just a freak accident, it was like trying to jump off the People Mover. Someone did something foolish and it ended badly. Hopefully it will give the next person pause before they decide those signs don't really mean it.

***
This is the most ignorant and appalling statement I have read on these boards in over 10 years! DISGUSTING! So a baby walking in the water a few inches deep is like trying to jump off the people mover!???

 

[buzznina]

I guess this thread is now a pretty mute point since Disney is currently erecting a fence along the beach edge at GF and will probably do the same at other resorts that have beaches.

 

[perkinsrose]

To dissent from the majority, I would switch resorts if I was going to the GF with small children. Not because of the danger, which seems minimal because it was a freak accident, but because I would be reminded of the tragedy every time I saw the beach area. It is too easy for me to put myself in the parents' shoes and feel that loss. There are many other lovely resorts at WDW.

Yes, this. I agree.
I would not be able to stay at Floridian..Or Poly anytime in near future for that matter. It would be too overwhelming emotionally. That family... I hurt for them.

I do not let fear make my choices. I WILL however be thoughtful and cautious though when walking along water paths.

 

[dmaxphil]

I guess I'll somewhat agree here. We have split stay starting July 6 at BLT and BC. DW has been not-so-secretly hoping a 1br at VGF would open up for us. Well today it did and she emphatically passed. I think "oh hell no" were the exact words. We have 7yo and 4yo DDs. It has nothing to do with safety.