How good/bad a job has your state done at flattening the curve?

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As unfortunate mental and financial well being is, being in the ICU and possibly dying is far far worse.

Whoa you may want to rephrase your wording there.

You may not be thinking of just what mental health is being discussed. You do realize people commit suicide, you do realize people spiral into deep depression, you do realize the very real ramifications people have that do affect people in ways the PP is thinking of.

It's unfortunate that people become so tunnel visioned that they refuse to even consider nor talk about the other things out there.

Really there's no need to reply to me. I already know where you stand.

 

[3threebabies]

ople going through mental and financial distress right now. But, you can bet that most families of individuals hospitalized from this virus is not even thinking about mental or financial health. As unfortunate mental and financial well being is, being in the ICU and possibly dying is far far worse. We're going to soon reach 2,000 deaths per day in the US. That is rate of almost 20 times as many deaths per day by car accidents in the US. And, for now, I think it's safe to say that most of those 2,000 deaths is not yet even directly attributed to lack of breathing devices, fortunately and unfortunately.

I would expect there are more families dealing with life and deaths situations outside those hospitalized for Covid. All life and death situations are important. Covid is not the only physical health and safety need that is tenuous right now.

edited to see bolded

 

[godisney14]

Whoa you may want to rephrase your wording there.

You may not be thinking of just what mental health is being discussed. You do realize people commit suicide, you do realize people spiral into deep depression, you do realize the very real ramifications people have that do affect people why which the PP is even thinking of.

It's unfortunate that people become so tunnel visioned that they refuse to even consider nor talk about the other things out there.

You’re right. I wasn’t thinking that broadly.
Sucks either way.

 

[choirfarm]

Whoa you may want to rephrase your wording there.

You may not be thinking of just what mental health is being discussed. You do realize people commit suicide, you do realize people spiral into deep depression, you do realize the very real ramifications people have that do affect people in ways the PP is thinking of.

It's unfortunate that people become so tunnel visioned that they refuse to even consider nor talk about the other things out there.

Really there's no need to reply to me. I already know where you stand.

Yes. I HATE THIS VIRUS. It is destroying our small town. It is BOTH the economic and health challenges. It just sucks whether you get the virus or not. No end game in sight.

 

[bcla]

And that is my point regarding flattening the curve, and going back to "semi-normal" where there's a rolling return, not an all at once type of return. It is all about not overwhelming the hospitals.

One of the strange ironies is that the requirements to treat Covid-19 above almost anything else has been bad for hospitals financially. They haven't necessarily been able to collect and obviously they're going to be treating a lot of uninsured and underinsured. They might be able to collect eventually since the federal government says that they'll reimburse hospitals.

And it's been especially bad for hospitals and many doctors because there's no more elective surgery going on. That's often a huge source of income for doctors and hospitals. There's talk about some hospitals closing because they're in bad financial shape because of a lack of elective surgeries. And many medical practices that specialize in elective surgeries aren't allowed to do those on the basis that those surgeries would require supplies that should go towards life-saving medical care.

 

[choirfarm]

One of the strange ironies is that the requirements to treat Covid-19 above almost anything else has been bad for hospitals financially. They haven't necessarily been able to collect and obviously they're going to be treating a lot of uninsured and underinsured. They might be able to collect eventually since the federal government says that they'll reimburse hospitals.

And it's been especially bad for hospitals and many doctors because there's no more elective surgery going on. That's often a huge source of income for doctors and hospitals. There's talk about some hospitals closing because they're in bad financial shape because of a lack of elective surgeries. And many medical practices that specialize in elective surgeries aren't allowed to do those on the basis that those surgeries would require supplies that should go towards life-saving medical care.

Yep, and doctors can't get back to normal until the virus is under control.

 

[godisney14]

One of the strange ironies is that the requirements to treat Covid-19 above almost anything else has been bad for hospitals financially. They haven't necessarily been able to collect and obviously they're going to be treating a lot of uninsured and underinsured. They might be able to collect eventually since the federal government says that they'll reimburse hospitals.

And it's been especially bad for hospitals and many doctors because there's no more elective surgery going on. That's often a huge source of income for doctors and hospitals. There's talk about some hospitals closing because they're in bad financial shape because of a lack of elective surgeries. And many medical practices that specialize in elective surgeries aren't allowed to do those on the basis that those surgeries would require supplies that should go towards life-saving medical care.

Yep, and doctors can't get back to normal until the virus is under control.

All very true and unfortunate. Many hospitals, especially rural ones, already were operating at low single digit margins before COVID-19

New York hospitals are even offering RN’s and PA’s up to $10,000/week with free housing. Doctors mostly exempt from the extra pay.

 

[Notrealname]

New York hospitals are even offering RN’s and PA’s up to $10,000/week with free housing. Doctors mostly exempt from the extra pay.

And others aren’t . . . decisions made by CEOs and execs with seven digit salaries.

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...ays-no-to-hazard-pay-for-coronavirus-workers/

 

[godisney14]

And others aren’t . . . decisions made by CEOs and execs with seven digit salaries.

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...ays-no-to-hazard-pay-for-coronavirus-workers/

That's unfortunate for those front line workers. But, I'm not surprised at the same time. Hospital CEO's aren't treated any differently from CEO's of other industries and companies.

The hospitals where I'm at are paying nurses and techs extra since they're unions. Unfortunately, doctors aren't paid extra, yet are asked to sign up for more hours. Some nurses now are paid as much as doctors (on an annualized rate for the time being).

 

[JimMIA]

https://nurse.org/articles/new-york-travel-nurse-jobs-covid19-incentives/

 

[Disneypro1]

DeWine should be given an A+. He also understands this can only go on so much longer.

 

[MarkLT1]

You may not be thinking of just what mental health is being discussed. You do realize people commit suicide, you do realize people spiral into deep depression, you do realize the very real ramifications people have that do affect people in ways the PP is thinking of.

Of course this is an issue... but it appears (from many studies done on the increase in suicide rates due to the '08 crash) that it is many orders of magnitude smaller than the effect of the virus.

In the 3 years after 2008, studies have shown suicides increased ~1500 cases per year, which is horrible. But to put it in context, we lost 4500 people to COVID in the last 4 days, and many models show we could be reaching reaching 4500 people dying per day by the end of the week (versus 4500 additional suicides in 3-years following 2008).

I'm by no means saying that we should be discounting the economic and mental health issues from continuing to self isolate/keeping everything shut down, but we shouldn't be falsely stating that they are equivalent either. (And this is not an attack on you in any way, but rather a concern I have about how these potential economic effects are being reported)

 

[Searc]

Iowa is one of the few states without a stay at home order. I'm not sure if they're doing a good job at flattening the curve or they're just lucky so far and they're a few weeks behind. Personally I'd prefer to be in a state with a stay at home order.

Iowa still has almost 800 confirmed cases. They had 45 a couple weeks ago. They need a stay at home order.

 

[amylevan]

Of course this is an issue... but it appears (from many studies done on the increase in suicide rates due to the '08 crash) that it is many orders of magnitude smaller than the effect of the virus.

In the 3 years after 2008, studies have shown suicides increased ~1500 cases per year, which is horrible. But to put it in context, we lost 4500 people to COVID in the last 4 days, and many models show we could be reaching reaching 4500 people dying per day by the end of the week (versus 4500 additional suicides in 3-years following 2008).

I'm by no means saying that we should be discounting the economic and mental health issues from continuing to self isolate/keeping everything shut down, but we shouldn't be falsely stating that they are equivalent either. (And this is not an attack on you in any way, but rather a concern I have about how these potential economic effects are being reported)

But the suicide rate in 2008 was only related to economic troubles. We now have people who are quarantined in “unsafe” houses. We have people who’s love language is touch who are severely lacking right now. Heck I’m an introvert, supposed to be loving quarantine, I’m finding myself dealing with anxious and depression thoughts. So I’m not sure we have any data that’s showing how big the mental toll is right now.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Of course this is an issue... but it appears (from many studies done on the increase in suicide rates due to the '08 crash) that it is many orders of magnitude smaller than the effect of the virus.

In the 3 years after 2008, studies have shown suicides increased ~1500 cases per year, which is horrible. But to put it in context, we lost 4500 people to COVID in the last 4 days, and many models show we could be reaching reaching 4500 people dying per day by the end of the week (versus 4500 additional suicides in 3-years following 2008).

I'm by no means saying that we should be discounting the economic and mental health issues from continuing to self isolate/keeping everything shut down, but we shouldn't be falsely stating that they are equivalent either. (And this is not an attack on you in any way, but rather a concern I have about how these potential economic effects are being reported)

Why are we comparing past events here? Why are we trying to marginalize things? Why are we trying to quantify something that can't be quantifiable at the moment? And it's not an attack on you either I just don't know why people are continuing to brush these things aside. I don't understand your comment about "falsely stating that they are equivalent" because it makes it sound like you'd rather not think about how things are being impacted because the effects are less visible I guess?

I've got multiple friends dealing with anxiety right now, two friends who have had deep depression in the past, one I'm worried about who already has PTSD with being in 3 or 4 (can't remember) tours in the middle east and is prone to shutting down, and these are just people I know. Magnify that by other people who know people who know people.

This is what one friend posted Friday night: "The amount of anxiety I have right now is unreal. I’m sweating, my palms are sweaty, and I legit feel like I’m holding back tears. Never have I ever had this much ‘fear’ about being around other people, or being unable to get the things I need for my family and I."

Another friend just lost her job because the bar/restaurant where she worked at just didn't have enough demand even with curbside pick up and alcohol being able to be curbside (an adjustment in the law) and now she can't get into unemployment as are many other people who are experiencing issues with applying. She has 3 kids to take care of.

And that's just in the last 4 days..

And now the local news is saying they are having an increase in domestic violence calls when a few weeks ago they were saying they were having less of that as well as child abuse calls and that was alarming because they were worried it was still happening and moreso now that people were stuck inside with their abusers potentially and no outlets..well now they are getting those increase in calls and it's alarming because of that too. The only homeless shelter in my county is staying open when it was supposed to close but now they need to be creative in where they find other places for people as social distancing mandates. The libraries aren't open and those are used for hot and cold places during the day during appropriate times of the year, domestic violence shelters are having the same issue with social distancing measures.

We want to focus on deaths and ICUs and ventilators because they are a very real in your face thing to see and it's terrible and we should focus on them we don't have to not focus on other things though in the name of discussing hospital situations. There are in fact other ways to die, other ways our phyical and mental health is impacted. And there's not an easy quantifiable way to measure that..that fact in itself should actually make it more visible..that we don't have numbers to fall back on for how far spread this is but numbers of deaths and positives of cases are easier to concentrate on I suppose.

*sigh* sorry if this all comes off harsh it just is frustrating sometimes and that's not aimed at you

 

[MarkLT1]

Why are we comparing past events here? Why are we trying to marginalize things? Why are we trying to quantify something that can't be quantifiable at the moment? And it's not an attack on you either I just don't know why people are continuing to brush these things aside. I don't understand your comment about "falsely stating that they are equivalent" because it makes it sound like you'd rather not think about how things are being impacted because the effects are less visible I guess?

...

*sigh* sorry if this all comes off harsh it just is frustrating sometimes and that's not aimed at you

No.. not harsh at all, and I 100% agree that it is something that absolutely needs to be accounted for.

Regarding "Why are we comparing past events here?" is coming from all of the posts/media/whatever talking about how we are going to see a TON more suicides due to the economic effects of socially isolating (again, not saying that you in particular were saying that.. I am taking a more general look at what I'm seeing on a day-to-day basis). The only data we have to look at are recent severe economic downturns, to get an idea of what it might look like.

And my "falsely stating that they are equivalent" is coming from that perspective as well. Certain people in leadership stating things like "the suicide rate due to the economic fallout will be much higher than the number of deaths due to the virus" which we have no evidence, models, or ANYTHING that show that the number of deaths from the virus, and estimated deaths due to suicide from the economic impacts are anywhere near equivalent.

 

[*DisneyDreamer]

I’m worried and mad about Wisconsin. Whatever effects our stay at home order has had on the curve could be undone this week by our state primary election. I am angry at our government officials for dragging their feet and being the only state to not postpone. I’m glad everyone in my family did absentee voting so none of us have to go to the polls, but this is such a foolish decision.

 

[Disneypro1]

I wish I lived in Iowa. Lol

 

[NYCgrrl]

I wish I lived in Iowa. Lol

Why?

 

[godisney14]

Why are we comparing past events here? Why are we trying to marginalize things? Why are we trying to quantify something that can't be quantifiable at the moment? And it's not an attack on you either I just don't know why people are continuing to brush these things aside. I don't understand your comment about "falsely stating that they are equivalent" because it makes it sound like you'd rather not think about how things are being impacted because the effects are less visible I guess?

I've got multiple friends dealing with anxiety right now, two friends who have had deep depression in the past, one I'm worried about who already has PTSD with being in 3 or 4 (can't remember) tours in the middle east and is prone to shutting down, and these are just people I know. Magnify that by other people who know people who know people.

This is what one friend posted Friday night: "The amount of anxiety I have right now is unreal. I’m sweating, my palms are sweaty, and I legit feel like I’m holding back tears. Never have I ever had this much ‘fear’ about being around other people, or being unable to get the things I need for my family and I."

Another friend just lost her job because the bar/restaurant where she worked at just didn't have enough demand even with curbside pick up and alcohol being able to be curbside (an adjustment in the law) and now she can't get into unemployment as are many other people who are experiencing issues with applying. She has 3 kids to take care of.

And that's just in the last 4 days..

And now the local news is saying they are having an increase in domestic violence calls when a few weeks ago they were saying they were having less of that as well as child abuse calls and that was alarming because they were worried it was still happening and moreso now that people were stuck inside with their abusers potentially and no outlets..well now they are getting those increase in calls and it's alarming because of that too. The only homeless shelter in my county is staying open when it was supposed to close but now they need to be creative in where they find other places for people as social distancing mandates. The libraries aren't open and those are used for hot and cold places during the day during appropriate times of the year, domestic violence shelters are having the same issue with social distancing measures.

We want to focus on deaths and ICUs and ventilators because they are a very real in your face thing to see and it's terrible and we should focus on them we don't have to not focus on other things though in the name of discussing hospital situations. There are in fact other ways to die, other ways our phyical and mental health is impacted. And there's not an easy quantifiable way to measure that..that fact in itself should actually make it more visible..that we don't have numbers to fall back on for how far spread this is but numbers of deaths and positives of cases are easier to concentrate on I suppose.

*sigh* sorry if this all comes off harsh it just is frustrating sometimes and that's not aimed at you

You have some valid points. So, in this context, what is it that you would like to see happen?