2013 Point Chart Changes

[Anal Annie]

Hi everyone,
I have just finished reviewing my contract and the new point calculations for 2012, not to mention whatever is coming for 2013. Being from California, we purchased in 2006 and because no properties were available to be sold in California, we were sold time at Saratoga Springs. We were asked by the salesman where we wanted to vacation, and we told him California, and we were told great, will be always be able to stay at the Disneyland Hotel and the points would remain level for a week's stay for the duration of our contract. Now that I have received the new booking schedules, and have gone back and assembled a chart of ALL points from the time of purchase until now, I have found that in the beginning a week would have cost me 203 points to stay a week in a standard room during regular season. That same room today will now cost me 376 points so now no longer have enough points to stay for a week during the summer months (regular season). Our salesman completely misrepresented to us with false and misleading statements that even though our "ownership" was in Florida, it could be used in the Disney Collection which was "exclusive" to DVC members -- which by the way I know now is available to Marriott timeshare owners -- and I believe the demand as a result of allowing other timeshares to book our resorts is driving the points up! Is there anyone else out there in California who purchased with the intent of almost exclusively staying in California and using your points at Disneyland Hotels? We are extremely disappointed and have placed a call to DVC and all they wanted to do was read us the contract. We know what the contract says, but we also know what the verbal contract and representations were and we are extremely unhappy. Believe it or not, we understand California Grand Californian is the most popular in all of DVC's holdings and therefore the most expensive when built. When we went for the "update" in 2010, we were told, however, that that would have no effect on point values for the remaining Disney Collection, i.e., the Disneyland Hotel. So, now when you take a look, the Grand Californian is 388 weekly points for the magic season (summer), and the Disneyland Hotel is 330 weekly points for the regular season (summer), compared to 196 points for a week from 2007-2011. We are feeling completely ripped off and defrauded. Anyone else actually done the comparison of points? If we just take a standard room at the Disneyland Hotel in 2008-2011, supervalue season 148 -- now 263 (increase of 115); value season 155 -- now 277 (increase of 122); regular season 196 -- now 330 (increase of 134); holiday season 214 -- now 376 (increase of 162). Can you imagine given their letter how much more this is going to go up for 2013? OR better yet, imagine what the points are going to cost us in 5 years, 10 years, or 40 years -- we won't be able to stay at all!!! What a bargain! Obviously, the intent of the DVC timeshare was that it will save us thousands of dollars to stay here, AND to quote our brochures received "The main reason we joined Disney Vacation Club is to have the ability to take a quality vacation at least once a year. We always know it's going to be a wonderful place where we can be together as a family." And lastly, I leave you with Walt Disney's quote "If you can keep the family together -- and that's the backbone of our whole business, catering to families - that's what we hope to do." Again, VERY disappointed in California.

None of the point charts for non-DVC hotels are that good of a value and some of the points for the other "collections" are flat out outrageously high (like for DCL and DLP). The DL hotel in CA is not and never was a DVC property so those points were never guaranteed to remain unchanged / reasonable. The salesperson was probably technically referring to your points usage at SSR - it's all in the way they word stuff. What the salesperson didn't make sure you understood was that the TOTAL number of points at a DVC resort could never change, not that they couldn't be re-arranged & reallocated. They never should've guaranteed that a hotel in another "collection" would never change if you specifically asked about the DL Hotel. Just like they can't guarantee that the points required to trade out thru RCI or II would always remain at their current level - those could be adusted one day too.

I think the DL hotels probably got to be even worse values once they opened VGC (Villas at the Grand Californian) as they really want to push DVC owners to stay in DVC villas, not regular hotel rooms that are in the other "collections". The points are high at VGC as well but are a better value than at the hotels. The biggest problem with VGC is that it is small so if you don't own there it's harder to get in at 7 months.

 

[wulfekamp]

I know I'm really dishearted with DVC right now. We vaction about the same time every year due to work and school. Are point were perfect for the size room we enjoyed and the time we traveled. Now were short point so we have to change when we travel or use a smaller room. When we bought DVC we were told they were Deluxe resorts and when we started they were. Now there not there dirty and have had maintenace issues on our last two stays. I have stayed at Disney deluxe hotels and never seem one as poor at anytime as seems to be the norm for DVC these days. I tavel for a living and stay at a lot of mid priced hotels and there cleaner than the DVC resorts we have stayed in the last few trips. I love DVC but calling them deluxe would be a stretch.

 

[Dean]

Dean,

There are several Dis members who have created "clones" of the spreadsheet to check the accuracy, if DVC had to hire an outside firm to do it that is just plain "sad"

bookwormde

There's a big difference in checking that the numbers are evening out compared to actually working out the day to day specifics and being certain they are correct when the company name is on the line. Then once the numbers work out by spreadsheet someone has to go through and manipulate them up and/or down to get them totally even. I did a spreadsheet too for 2 resorts, it's a big difference from what I know.

 

[keishashadow]

Our initial reaction to that letter was "UGH" - probably means points going up on everything, everywhere. I know that was the feeling of our other DVC friends too.

We aren't going to purchase any more points so it will stink if I won't be able to go when I want too... or have to pay cash for some nights.

Let's hope for the best for the 2013 charts.

don't count on them being available during peak times even several months out. The last 2 times I tried they were NA but at least I was able to 'rent' points from DVC. Perhaps they'll increase the # of points we are permited each year (believe it's 24?) I'd prefer to see a promo on purchasing multiple 25 point contracts for those of us who need to top off our various resorts

 

[disneyobessed]

ugh we have been playing with a 6 night period in August that is the same season as a week in Feb we plan on going next year... I have the points somewhat figured out.. give or take 5-10 I hope there are not major changes.

 

[bookwormde]

Dean,

I found if very easy to rebalence them even changing season dates. If was actually a lot harder to do the intial match to DVC's change. Of course I like doing this sort of "numbers" stuff.

DVC has all the intial data and the formal crtieria estabilshed so it should be a no brainer for them (the algorithum is very simple), once they decide which times are underbooked and which have an overdemand.

 

[Dean]

Dean,

I found if very easy to rebalence them even changing season dates. If was actually a lot harder to do the intial match to DVC's change. Of course I like doing this sort of "numbers" stuff.

DVC has all the intial data and the formal crtieria estabilshed so it should be a no brainer for them (the algorithum is very simple), once they decide which times are underbooked and which have an overdemand.

I guess easy is relative.

 

[BeccaG]

Dean,

I found if very easy to rebalence them even changing season dates. If was actually a lot harder to do the intial match to DVC's change. Of course I like doing this sort of "numbers" stuff.

DVC has all the intial data and the formal crtieria estabilshed so it should be a no brainer for them (the algorithum is very simple), once they decide which times are underbooked and which have an overdemand.

Not to hijack the thread, but this sounds interesting to me! If you have proposed guessed point charts based on your math I'd love to see them...of course you'd be making guesses as to what they needed to change..but it would be a fun game....


Everyone else, so what do you think will stay the same if only some of the resorts are changing? And what will change? Is it just December/October and the weekend/weekday split? Or will there be some Aulani purchasers who see dramatic shifts in points?

 

[Dean]

Everyone else, so what do you think will stay the same if only some of the resorts are changing? And what will change? Is it just December/October and the weekend/weekday split? Or will there be some Aulani purchasers who see dramatic shifts in points?

I think it's extremely unlikely to see a different formula for any of the WDW resorts. Sometimes there are minor differences due to the balancing requirements al a BWV/BCV. That's the other component of the complexity of any change, making sure that the formula's for demand are followed as well as the max change requirements. Both more simple I believe but they are additive.

 

[bookwormde]

I generally just wait and check to see that the changes balance. Everyone is guessing that some dates will move seasons to try to balance demand. It would not surprise me if some booking catagories got adjusted especially at AKV raising value and CL and lowering standard a little. BWV standard might be anohter possibility for a slight rise with prefered view being made lower than BW view. Standard at BLT is also another that might go up to balance demand. THV is another pssibility but that one I doubt will happen unti SSR is sold out again. Some weekend/weekday readjsut is also still possible. There is also a channce of rebalancing between Studio, 1br, 2br and GVs although DVC creates so many points when they split a lockoff that I think that is unlikely also.

 

[Sammie]

I think October food and wine will change for BWV and BCV and I think VWL and BLT will change for early December.

I don't think SSR, OKW or AKV will change.

This is my guess.

 

[Sandisw]

My guess is that early December and October will be more and that they will possibly lower the first part of August.

Of course, I only hope this because we travel in August and would love to be able to save a few points.

 

[Dean]

I generally just wait and check to see that the changes balance. Everyone is guessing that some dates will move seasons to try to balance demand. It would not surprise me if some booking catagories got adjusted especially at AKV raising value and CL and lowering standard a little. BWV standard might be anohter possibility for a slight rise with prefered view being made lower than BW view. Standard at BLT is also another that might go up to balance demand. THV is another pssibility but that one I doubt will happen unti SSR is sold out again. Some weekend/weekday readjsut is also still possible. There is also a channce of rebalancing between Studio, 1br, 2br and GVs although DVC creates so many points when they split a lockoff that I think that is unlikely also.

Remember the limitations on rebalancing the lockoff's are minimal to non existent at resorts that do not have dedicated smaller units. This very issue got one member in a tizzy related to the previous reallocations.

 

[4HOLIDAYS]

I just found this thread. I had to look sinc I just got our book/chart and letter today and new the dis would have info or speculation at least. I think it's funny I get a 2012 book on Jan 5th of the same yr it is meant for! As for the letter...not again.

As a previous poster stated our guide LIED...I still have the notes,repeated conversations,with my notes, the calcs, as to how the pts for the stay/ the week/ the room at how at that resort it WILL NEVER CHANGE. I have seen many people state they were told this, the fact we had it written down, does not matter. What is in the contract matters, and we all signed it.

We ahnged already he amount of days, room size, resort to accomadate the prior changes in points. I am sure we will adapt to this as well. I now have 2 DS(13, 15) where it is not likely to stay on sofa beds. The sofa beds have been really really bad at BWV and BCV especially. They are tall, big boys, as well as 2 adults, we need beds, not a big kitchen so we are looking at doing 2br or 2 studios whichever will work out point wise better after the next change.

 

[SuperRob]

Disney sold us 60 points last year, just enough for us to travel once every couple years for a few days. That's all the points we have. Reallocations don't bother me; My wife and I will vacation when it's cheap for us to go, and if the points go up for some weeks, they have to come down for others.

However, instituting any kind of minimum stay may screw us over entirely. We'd probably have to sell our interest in such a case. I really hope that doesn't happen. It was two years of points for a 5-night stay at Aulani in April. Can't do much more than that.

 

[hakepb]

Disney sold us 60 points last year, just enough for us to travel once every couple years for a few days. That's all the points we have. Reallocations don't bother me; My wife and I will vacation when it's cheap for us to go, and if the points go up for some weeks, they have to come down for others.

However, instituting any kind of minimum stay may screw us over entirely. We'd probably have to sell our interest in such a case. I really hope that doesn't happen. It was two years of points for a 5-night stay at Aulani in April. Can't do much more than that.

By contract, I do not think they can mandate more days than a 5 day minimum stay. I suppose they could eventually make every unit the same points every day of they year (ie "adventure season"standard studio = "magic season" ocean view GV) might knock out us low points people.

 

[Dean]

I just found this thread. I had to look sinc I just got our book/chart and letter today and new the dis would have info or speculation at least. I think it's funny I get a 2012 book on Jan 5th of the same yr it is meant for! As for the letter...not again.

As a previous poster stated our guide LIED...I still have the notes,repeated conversations,with my notes, the calcs, as to how the pts for the stay/ the week/ the room at how at that resort it WILL NEVER CHANGE. I have seen many people state they were told this, the fact we had it written down, does not matter. What is in the contract matters, and we all signed it.

We ahnged already he amount of days, room size, resort to accomadate the prior changes in points. I am sure we will adapt to this as well. I now have 2 DS(13, 15) where it is not likely to stay on sofa beds. The sofa beds have been really really bad at BWV and BCV especially. They are tall, big boys, as well as 2 adults, we need beds, not a big kitchen so we are looking at doing 2br or 2 studios whichever will work out point wise better after the next change.

First realize this statement comes from one who was given specific and incorrect information on their tour to the point that even though I bought resale, DVD offered to buy my contract back and make me whole including closing costs and all other costs.

I'm sure many guides have made statements that suggest the points wouldn't change. I'm sure they believed that. To say they lied implied they purposefully gave you wrong info which may have happened but I've never seen a situation with DVC where I believed that to be the case related to rebalancing. Regardless, the paperwork clearly spells out the possibility.

 

[Dean]

By contract, I do not think they can mandate more days than a 5 day minimum stay. I suppose they could eventually make every unit the same points every day of they year (ie "adventure season"standard studio = "magic season" ocean view GV) might knock out us low points people.

Technically true but there are ways they could make it more restrictive. They could give a reservation priority for longer stays (they have already to a degree). They could require specific days be linked together. They could mandate longer stays for holidays using the lottery type options.

 

[dwelty]

Hi everyone,
I have just finished reviewing my contract and the new point calculations for 2012, not to mention whatever is coming for 2013. Being from California, we purchased in 2006 and because no properties were available to be sold in California, we were sold time at Saratoga Springs. We were asked by the salesman where we wanted to vacation, and we told him California, and we were told great, will be always be able to stay at the Disneyland Hotel and the points would remain level for a week's stay for the duration of our contract. Now that I have received the new booking schedules, and have gone back and assembled a chart of ALL points from the time of purchase until now, I have found that in the beginning a week would have cost me 203 points to stay a week in a standard room during regular season. That same room today will now cost me 376 points so now no longer have enough points to stay for a week during the summer months (regular season). Our salesman completely misrepresented to us with false and misleading statements that even though our "ownership" was in Florida, it could be used in the Disney Collection which was "exclusive" to DVC members -- which by the way I know now is available to Marriott timeshare owners -- and I believe the demand as a result of allowing other timeshares to book our resorts is driving the points up! Is there anyone else out there in California who purchased with the intent of almost exclusively staying in California and using your points at Disneyland Hotels? We are extremely disappointed and have placed a call to DVC and all they wanted to do was read us the contract. We know what the contract says, but we also know what the verbal contract and representations were and we are extremely unhappy. Believe it or not, we understand California Grand Californian is the most popular in all of DVC's holdings and therefore the most expensive when built. When we went for the "update" in 2010, we were told, however, that that would have no effect on point values for the remaining Disney Collection, i.e., the Disneyland Hotel. So, now when you take a look, the Grand Californian is 388 weekly points for the magic season (summer), and the Disneyland Hotel is 330 weekly points for the regular season (summer), compared to 196 points for a week from 2007-2011. We are feeling completely ripped off and defrauded. Anyone else actually done the comparison of points? If we just take a standard room at the Disneyland Hotel in 2008-2011, supervalue season 148 -- now 263 (increase of 115); value season 155 -- now 277 (increase of 122); regular season 196 -- now 330 (increase of 134); holiday season 214 -- now 376 (increase of 162). Can you imagine given their letter how much more this is going to go up for 2013? OR better yet, imagine what the points are going to cost us in 5 years, 10 years, or 40 years -- we won't be able to stay at all!!! What a bargain! Obviously, the intent of the DVC timeshare was that it will save us thousands of dollars to stay here, AND to quote our brochures received "The main reason we joined Disney Vacation Club is to have the ability to take a quality vacation at least once a year. We always know it's going to be a wonderful place where we can be together as a family." And lastly, I leave you with Walt Disney's quote "If you can keep the family together -- and that's the backbone of our whole business, catering to families - that's what we hope to do." Again, VERY disappointed in California.

I am an SSR owner who purchased around the same time as you in California. Why don't you just book a studio for a week at VGC? I have done it 3 times so far without any problem.

 

[Fanatic4Disney]

I am an SSR owner who purchased around the same time as you in California. Why don't you just book a studio for a week at VGC? I have done it 3 times so far without any problem.

The problem is that I have 5 in my family and staying at the Disneyland Hotel or even Paradise Pier offers sleeping arrangements for 5 -- I noticed that the studio only allows for 4 people but the one bedroom villas offer for 5 people. I'm still short too many points during summer time when kids are out of school. I also notice on page 35 of the new book that "maximum room occupancy is 4 or 5 depending on the resort and room category" so not even sure what they are going to allow at DL Hotel or Paradise Pier.