Covid And The Rest of Us

[Karin1984]

Over on the News thread it was mentioned that it would be closing on October 30th but I don't know if that's been put out officially by DLP.

Yes, from Friday, the lockdown starts. So if DLP has to close it will be the same date.
I saw one Tweet in the Newsthread, that already announced the closure, but till there is no official message from DLP, we keep some hope.

 

[pigletto]

Interesting thing about that is that here in Canada, we are under a "State of Medical Emergency" federally and many (maybe all) provinces have declared a "State of Medical Emergency" for their own jurisdictions. Even many of our cities/municipalities have made their own applicable declarations. There is a HUMONGOUSLY WIDE range of powers granted by this status; things that can be prohibited, required and or imposed by our levels of government without requiring normal parliamentary/legislative processes. Most of us have a high level of trust that our governments will not abuse or exploit us - blessedly we have no reason not to trust it. But the fact remains that we could wake up tomorrow morning under the same conditions as @MommyinHonduras , at least in theory.

Yes, our rights really are only rights until they are treated as privileges and taken away by the powers that be. This could occur any time, but like you said, as Canadians we’ve had the luxury of never having that occur. Still scary to think of how quickly that can change. I won’t lie, there are things occurring in developed and powerful nations that I never thought I would see either. What strange times we are living in.

 

[MommyinHonduras]

So new development, so we have a big national holiday that is usually celebrated the first week of October but was postponed til the first week of November. In an attempt to balance covid and the economy, our assigned numbers are being lifted from Nov 4th at 6am until 10pm on November 8th.

 

[ronandannette]

Yes, our rights really are only rights until they are treated as privileges and taken away by the powers that be. This could occur any time, but like you said, as Canadians we’ve had the luxury of never having that occur. Still scary to think of how quickly that can change. I won’t lie, there are things occurring in developed and powerful nations that I never thought I would see either. What strange times we are living in.

Yes, just so and yet who among us could have even begun to imagine what we're living through? We are so fortunate; maybe to the point many are truly unaware of how things could change. And sobering to ponder on this, the 50th anniversary of the October Crisis - the last time the War Measures Act (with sweeping powers similar to what are in force now) was envoked in this country.

 

[elphaba91]

That would be nearly impractical in the suburbs. It's just over 3 miles if converting. Don't get me wrong I totally understand the why behind it but in the 'burbs things are sprawled out for a reason.

For context in Melbourne, I live in the suburbs. In my 5km bubble I had numerous grocery stores from the 2 major chains plus the 2 next biggest, several pharmacies ranging from independent stores to giant discount warehouses, independent butchers, green grocers, fishmongers, etc, multiple post offices, lots of options for takeaway food, plenty of green spaces and walking tracks. To be honest, I didn’t really cover much of my 5km.

However, my aunt lives on the Mornington Peninsula (a beach area, which many argued should have been considered regional), so much of her bubble was in the water (which was very tough), but even she had at least one of each of the above available to her, although often it was a more expensive option. Here the rule also was that you could travel further if the thing you needed was further than 5km away (e.g. if you lived in the country and had to go further to your nearest supermarket, or I was able to go into the city to see my specialist).

As of yesterday, we are now officially out of lockdown. People were very excited, with people at the 24 hour Kmart right on midnight, lots of photos from pubs and restaurants on social media and apparently hours of refreshing to try get tickets to the zoo. I’m still planning on taking things slow and will probably avoid the major shopping centres for now, although did pop into a small store next to the supermarket last night (and bought some Christmas stuff!) and then quickly went to another store this morning.

After 2 days of double donuts - 0 cases and 0 deaths (yes, there was absolutely a run on donuts!), yesterday we had 2 cases (both close contacts who had been in quarantine for awhile) and 2 historic deaths reported and then today 3 cases (1 a close contact in quarantine and 2 which are likely just old infections still shedding).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

For context in Melbourne, I live in the suburbs. In my 5km bubble I had numerous grocery stores from the 2 major chains plus the 2 next biggest, several pharmacies ranging from independent stores to giant discount warehouses, independent butchers, green grocers, fishmongers, etc, multiple post offices, lots of options for takeaway food, plenty of green spaces and walking tracks. To be honest, I didn’t really cover much of my 5km.

However, my aunt lives on the Mornington Peninsula (a beach area, which many argued should have been considered regional), so much of her bubble was in the water (which was very tough), but even she had at least one of each of the above available to her, although often it was a more expensive option. Here the rule also was that you could travel further if the thing you needed was further than 5km away (e.g. if you lived in the country and had to go further to your nearest supermarket, or I was able to go into the city to see my specialist).

As of yesterday, we are now officially out of lockdown. People were very excited, with people at the 24 hour Kmart right on midnight, lots of photos from pubs and restaurants on social media and apparently hours of refreshing to try get tickets to the zoo. I’m still planning on taking things slow and will probably avoid the major shopping centres for now, although did pop into a small store next to the supermarket last night (and bought some Christmas stuff!) and then quickly went to another store this morning.

After 2 days of double donuts - 0 cases and 0 deaths (yes, there was absolutely a run on donuts!), yesterday we had 2 cases (both close contacts who had been in quarantine for awhile) and 2 historic deaths reported and then today 3 cases (1 a close contact in quarantine and 2 which are likely just old infections still shedding).

We have some things but the person I quoted was talking about entertainment, recreational, exercise and social stuff. Where I live presently we really don't have much in that diameter mentioned.

There aren't any movie theaters that close, shopping for clothes is probably Walmart mostly though there is a sport-oriented shop (for NFL, MLB, and college-sports stuff that would be in that circle), though we do have the two parks that would be included.

There's a few grocery stores(Walmart, ALDI and a local grocery store), fast food joints, just a handful of restaurants, schools, I believe a few churches (I'm aware of one of them for sure) which would be more considered essential stuff. In my subsequent comment I mentioned when I lived at the apartment in a different area of my county I had much more around me in terms of entertainment, recreational and social though still no family living that close.

I do think for the most part my particular county has a lot of parks (either city or county operated) so exercise would at least be easier to come by in that circle and thankfully they didn't really close that down in my area. People really needed that avenue and as there were a variety of ones to choose from I never really saw it packed at all and when walking it was very easy to step aside and avoid anyone.

It totally makes sense to allow for further travel for essential things.

I'm very glad to hear about your area's situation improving

Oh Christmas stuff, I've stayed away from Costco because I just know I'll want to buy stuff We're giving my mom a Costco membership as a gift for her birthday (trust me she's been asking about it lol) so come Friday I'll be going in with her to do it all and it will be really hard not to want to walk out with some Christmas decor...which TBH is probably slim pickins' right now; they put out their stuff early per usual. The weather this week and this past weekend was just downright awful with snow and icy mix and cold cold temps. Next week is supposed to be back up in the 60s with one day maybe low 70s. I'll be outside again next week.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Totally and completely off topic just the weather had me thinking about it last year my city started announcing stats for winter weather work and let me just tell ya it's kinda cool to see the information. In the past most of the information that we got was how much salt (to add to a brine solution) my area purchased and how many plows they had. It seems only my city gives the more information that I could find but it would be interesting to see how much the state spends on state roads and highways and the county spends on unincorporated roads.

Does anyone else who gets winter weather get any of that information?

Are any areas announcing any budget issues with winter weather actions because of COVID? I'm not sure how winter weather budgets and processes are handled elsewhere that gets winter weather (and I don't want to presume the weather in other parts of the world in terms of snow and ice so I'll just leave that open ended lol).

For references this past snow/ice storm (the first of this season) that hit early Monday morning but treatment started Sunday had the following stats:

 

[mommasita]

Totally and completely off topic just the weather had me thinking about it last year my city started announcing stats for winter weather work and let me just tell ya it's kinda cool to see the information. In the past most of the information that we got was how much salt (to add to a brine solution) my area purchased and how many plows they had. It seems only my city gives the more information that I could find but it would be interesting to see how much the state spends on state roads and highways and the county spends on unincorporated roads.

Does anyone else who gets winter weather get any of that information?

Are any areas announcing any budget issues with winter weather actions because of COVID? I'm not sure how winter weather budgets and processes are handled elsewhere that gets winter weather (and I don't want to presume the weather in other parts of the world in terms of snow and ice so I'll just leave that open ended lol).

For references this past snow/ice storm (the first of this season) that hit early Monday morning but treatment started Sunday had the following stats:
View attachment 535191

Re: weather and storm. We usually get this info a few times in the winter. It would be impossible after every storm . Once we get going, we really get going. We have had some really mild temperatures last week, but we are now (I think) pretty close to seeing our first flakes shortly, after that is just snow, ice, snow ice... we normally go over budget quite early in the season.
sooo not looking forward to it, my BIL just got our snow tires done on our 3 vehicles, as our law is Dec 1, but we never wait.

That isn’t much snow , did you have a lot of ice ? We have a min before they come out, 5 cm. Ice is different.

 

[ronandannette]

Re: weather and storm. We usually get this info a few times in the winter. It would be impossible after every storm . Once we get going, we really get going. We have had some really mild temperatures last week, but we are now (I think) pretty close to seeing our first flakes shortly, after that is just snow, ice, snow ice... we normally go over budget quite early in the season.
sooo not looking forward to it, my BIL just got our snow tires done on our 3 vehicles, as our law is Dec 1, but we never wait.

That isn’t much snow , did you have a lot of ice ? We have a min before they come out, 5 cm. Ice is different.

From 2016 but still literally one of the most incredible videos I've ever seen in my life.

 

[mommasita]

From 2016 but still literally one of the most incredible videos I've ever seen in my life.

AHH YES, Beaver Hall Hill,
I so remember this disaster . The best part was another followed a day or so later. That was so bad.. my husband just doesn’t get that I won’t drive to work in the winter, give me the bus and metro any day over that

 

[SirDuff]

Yes, France and Germany both announced their lockdowns for 4 weeks / till December 1st. Hoping they can change the tide before the holidays arrive.
We're waiting for DLP to officially announce their second closure.

The Netherlands are waiting 1 more week...

On the other hand, Switzerland just threw its borders pretty much wide open (only people coming in from Andorra, Armenia, Belgium, and Czechia (and parts of France) need to isolate on arrival as of this weekend). I think that the argument is that our numbers as so bad (one of the worst on per capita basis), so what's the point the point of keeping others out. Not a policy that I'd have chosen, but there we are.

 

[mrs. magoo]

While reading my daily news sites, I came across this article about Australia and its travel ban. It was eye opening to me since I was not aware that people were not allowed to leave. I thought they could leave and then quarantine upon return but apparently not according to this article. I know that there are a couple of people from Australia on the boards and wondered if they had a opinion on this either way or if it is an example of a news story being spun in a direction other than intended.

https://apnews.com/article/travel-v...alia-germany-4f64b1e5dda462b01f98b945553f198d

 

[BadPinkTink]

While reading my daily news sites, I came across this article about Australia and its travel ban. It was eye opening to me since I was not aware that people were not allowed to leave. I thought they could leave and then quarantine upon return but apparently not according to this article. I know that there are a couple of people from Australia on the boards and wondered if they had a opinion on this either way or if it is an example of a news story being spun in a direction other than intended.

https://apnews.com/article/travel-v...alia-germany-4f64b1e5dda462b01f98b945553f198d

While I'm not in Australia, my country, Ireland has a similar travel ban. And like Australia, we are a multi cultural nation, with many migrant workers living in Ireland. Ireland also has a huge travel link with The UK.

This travel ban has impacted me personally. My sister, her husband and my 5 year old niece live in England. Before Covid my mom would go over to her about every 6 to 8 weeks. We alternate Christmas, last year me and mom spent Christmas in England and this year they were supposed to spend Christmas in Ireland.

My mom's last visit to England before Covid was February 2020. Easter was cancelled and now Christmas has been cancelled. We have no idea when we will be allowed to leave the island of Ireland.

The borders technically have not been closed and there are still flights in and out of Dublin airport, but only for essential reasons, such as politicians, health reasons, business etc. People do continue to travel but the majority of Irish people follow the rules and don't travel. Its not as strict as Australia but it still means that families like mine have been separated.

As the official Government statement is to avoid all non essential travel off the island of Ireland, if we did travel, our travel health insurance would be void. If something happened to my sister and her family, I know me and mom would risk travel to England, which would mean travelling to a different country in a pandemic without health insurance.

 

[elphaba91]

We have some things but the person I quoted was talking about entertainment, recreational, exercise and social stuff. Where I live presently we really don't have much in that diameter mentioned.

There aren't any movie theaters that close, shopping for clothes is probably Walmart mostly though there is a sport-oriented shop (for NFL, MLB, and college-sports stuff that would be in that circle), though we do have the two parks that would be included.

There's a few grocery stores(Walmart, ALDI and a local grocery store), fast food joints, just a handful of restaurants, schools, I believe a few churches (I'm aware of one of them for sure) which would be more considered essential stuff. In my subsequent comment I mentioned when I lived at the apartment in a different area of my county I had much more around me in terms of entertainment, recreational and social though still no family living that close.

I do think for the most part my particular county has a lot of parks (either city or county operated) so exercise would at least be easier to come by in that circle and thankfully they didn't really close that down in my area. People really needed that avenue and as there were a variety of ones to choose from I never really saw it packed at all and when walking it was very easy to step aside and avoid anyone.

It totally makes sense to allow for further travel for essential things.

I'm very glad to hear about your area's situation improving

Oh Christmas stuff, I've stayed away from Costco because I just know I'll want to buy stuff We're giving my mom a Costco membership as a gift for her birthday (trust me she's been asking about it lol) so come Friday I'll be going in with her to do it all and it will be really hard not to want to walk out with some Christmas decor...which TBH is probably slim pickins' right now; they put out their stuff early per usual. The weather this week and this past weekend was just downright awful with snow and icy mix and cold cold temps. Next week is supposed to be back up in the 60s with one day maybe low 70s. I'll be outside again next week.

Here at least, all recreation, cinemas, clothing stores, churches, schools, etc. were all closed anyway, so it was irrelevant (although we certainly have at least 3 cinemas and 3 shopping malls - 1 of a very decent size, the others a bit smaller, several churches, etc. - within our 5km). Funnily enough, Costco is one of the few things that is not within my bubble!

While reading my daily news sites, I came across this article about Australia and its travel ban. It was eye opening to me since I was not aware that people were not allowed to leave. I thought they could leave and then quarantine upon return but apparently not according to this article. I know that there are a couple of people from Australia on the boards and wondered if they had a opinion on this either way or if it is an example of a news story being spun in a direction other than intended.

https://apnews.com/article/travel-v...alia-germany-4f64b1e5dda462b01f98b945553f198d

It is a very tricky situation. There are a few reasons for the ban.

The first is similar to why there are bans on travel to places like North Korea: it is considered high-risk, you can’t get travel insurance and the government doesn’t want to face pressure to bail people out if they get sick. Also, as we’ve seen in Victoria, even travellers in hotel quarantine can pose a risk.

The second is that there are so few flights and spots available in hotel quarantine that they don’t want people getting stuck overseas (and again face pressure to arrange repatriation flights, etc.) and to add more names to the backlog of people trying to get back. They are adding more spots at an old miner’s camp in the middle of nowhere in the Northern Territory (it’s apparently actually lovely!) but it is still a lot to work through, especially with airlines having so few seats available.

Finally, even with people having to pay an amount for hotel quarantine, it is still costing a lot of money; the NSW premier this week was complaining about the Queensland and WA governments not paying their fair share of the bill for hotel quarantine while keeping state borders closed.

So, I do agree that it is necessary to prevent Australians from leaving the country for frivolous reasons; there definitely would be people wanting to just vacation and I think it is good to be preventing that at the moment. You can get exemptions including on humanitarian and compassionate grounds, essential business travel, leaving for more than 3 months. The problem is, of course, that there are some people (like those in the article) who get caught up in it unfairly and with the delays that inevitably come with bureaucracy. The same has also happened with people needing exemptions for state border closures. It is undoubtedly really tough for those individuals who it affects but I suppose if we didn’t have these restrictions then there would be even more people unable to say a proper goodbye to loved ones. It is definitely far from ideal (even in my family, my aunt doesn’t know when she’ll be able to see her son and grandkids, including a new one in December, again as they are in Uganda and we don’t know when we’ll be able to see our relatives in London either). But nothing in this pandemic is ideal at all, is it?

 

[mrs. magoo]

Here at least, all recreation, cinemas, clothing stores, churches, schools, etc. were all closed anyway, so it was irrelevant (although we certainly have at least 3 cinemas and 3 shopping malls - 1 of a very decent size, the others a bit smaller, several churches, etc. - within our 5km). Funnily enough, Costco is one of the few things that is not within my bubble!



It is a very tricky situation. There are a few reasons for the ban.

The first is similar to why there are bans on travel to places like North Korea: it is considered high-risk, you can’t get travel insurance and the government doesn’t want to face pressure to bail people out if they get sick. Also, as we’ve seen in Victoria, even travellers in hotel quarantine can pose a risk.

The second is that there are so few flights and spots available in hotel quarantine that they don’t want people getting stuck overseas (and again face pressure to arrange repatriation flights, etc.) and to add more names to the backlog of people trying to get back. They are adding more spots at an old miner’s camp in the middle of nowhere in the Northern Territory (it’s apparently actually lovely!) but it is still a lot to work through, especially with airlines having so few seats available.

Finally, even with people having to pay an amount for hotel quarantine, it is still costing a lot of money; the NSW premier this week was complaining about the Queensland and WA governments not paying their fair share of the bill for hotel quarantine while keeping state borders closed.

So, I do agree that it is necessary to prevent Australians from leaving the country for frivolous reasons; there definitely would be people wanting to just vacation and I think it is good to be preventing that at the moment. You can get exemptions including on humanitarian and compassionate grounds, essential business travel, leaving for more than 3 months. The problem is, of course, that there are some people (like those in the article) who get caught up in it unfairly and with the delays that inevitably come with bureaucracy. The same has also happened with people needing exemptions for state border closures. It is undoubtedly really tough for those individuals who it affects but I suppose if we didn’t have these restrictions then there would be even more people unable to say a proper goodbye to loved ones. It is definitely far from ideal (even in my family, my aunt doesn’t know when she’ll be able to see her son and grandkids, including a new one in December, again as they are in Uganda and we don’t know when we’ll be able to see our relatives in London either). But nothing in this pandemic is ideal at all, is it?

Thank you for your perspective. So does the government not trust people to quarantine upon return? Again I am just wondering and trying to understand the rules. I live in NY and while there is no official travel ban we are required to self quarantine from 43 states upon return. Does everyone follow this? Of course that would be a big no. But I feel that it still allows freedom to move about and there is an understanding that you should be doing your part for the community.

The fact that your health insurance would not cover you would be a big determinant. Is that because you have universal health care and not private insurance? I am pretty sure my health insurance would cover me. I have always been told by all the doctors that I have the Cadillac(expensive car) plan that pretty much covers everything at a low co pay.

That is why I always look for and read this thread first. I love the perspectives of all the people from different countries. We can so easily get caught up in our own little bubble that we forget about others.

 

[NFLDERS]

Moistly, don't forget moistly, and his most recent bit of profundity "Covid sucks".

I used 'Sucks' (probably this thread topic) or elsewhere here on Disboards a few days before he did, but like him I. Was. Not. Laughing.

I'll take 1/2 a Trudeau over hundreds of ie. The likes of Trump, Putin!

 

[pigletto]

From 2016 but still literally one of the most incredible videos I've ever seen in my life.

Oh goodness. I live in Southern Ontario. I have for 46 years and yet every year I end up surprised at just how cold and awful our weather can be. I just don’t want it this year

 

[AlohaNow]

Much like @MommyinHonduras is reporting, Argentina is only allowing people to be out of their homes to obtain essentials on days assigned by the last digit in their national number (much like a social security number). There is police enforcement in the streets and penalties if you break the quarantine rules. This is why I just have to crack up when any American says we are ‘on lockdown’. We are basically free to move about the country, with certain states having quarantine rules upon your return home. Honduras and Argentina are truly on lockdown. People being welded into their apartment buildings in China were truly on lockdown. Have some international perspective my fellow Americans.

DS has been patiently waiting for Argentina to reopen so he can see his GF again. He’s given up all hope for this year and is hoping for a summer 2021 return at the earliest.

ETA: You may now leave your home for an essential job as well.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Re: weather and storm. We usually get this info a few times in the winter. It would be impossible after every storm . Once we get going, we really get going. We have had some really mild temperatures last week, but we are now (I think) pretty close to seeing our first flakes shortly, after that is just snow, ice, snow ice... we normally go over budget quite early in the season.
sooo not looking forward to it, my BIL just got our snow tires done on our 3 vehicles, as our law is Dec 1, but we never wait.

Most of the time we get several inches of snow at one time so it's probably easier to track here. Knock on wood I haven't heard that the pandemic has affected this particular part of the city's budget. In April the city furloughed for 2 weeks every city workers but the front-line police officers and firefighters (which I thought was actually pretty crazy to only have those two positions working for 2 weeks) due to economic impacts of the pandemic. We were still under a stay at home order at that time. Apparently that 'saved' the city $816K.

My sister-in-law is the only person I know close to me that rotates their tires to winter/snow ones, she has summer and winter tires whereas the rest of us just do the normal all-weather. That's interesting about it being your law but that makes sense depending on one's normal winter climate. Don't laugh but most of my knowledge on Canada winter weather is from the show Highway Thru Hell which I realize is just in a very specified area of Canada

My husband was up in southern Maryland in 2016 on a power plant site and got to experience a storm that brought 2 feet of snow. Yeah we do not get that amount of snow from one storm in our area. He got his fix right then and there for huge huge storms I'm sure that sounds wimpy to other people though.

That isn’t much snow , did you have a lot of ice ? We have a min before they come out, 5 cm. Ice is different.

Not a whole lot of ice, most of the ice this storm would have been refreezing issues which is a very common issue where I live. We were projected to get 2-3 inches of snow but the storm came over our area hours later than originally anticipated so that probably weakened it.

I don't really know the cost analysis because it seems all over the place. If I had to guess most of it is is continual treatment of the roads with the salt/brine solution due to freezing, melting, refreezing issues and cost of paying the workers for their long shifts. If it's rain before the snow they try not to pretreat as much because the rain just washes away the solution.

Here's a snapshot from a storm this past mid-Feb (last storm of last season):



That's got me wanting to ask the city how they break down the cost. When they post this information on Nextdoor people def. pick up on the cost but that is usually met with "yeah well just go across state lines and you'll see the difference" (honest truth no insult meant). Hmm okay maybe I really will ask the city what goes into the Dollars Spent part.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Much like @MommyinHonduras is reporting, Argentina is only allowing people to be out of their homes to obtain essentials on days assigned by the last digit in their national number (much like a social security number). There is police enforcement in the streets and penalties if you break the quarantine rules. This is why I just have to crack up when any American says we are ‘on lockdown’. We are basically free to move about the country, with certain states having quarantine rules upon your return home. Honduras and Argentina are truly on lockdown. People being welded into their apartment buildings in China were truly on lockdown. Have some international perspective my fellow Americans.

DS has been patiently waiting for Argentina to reopen so he can see his GF again. He’s given up all hope for this year and is hoping for a summer 2021 return at the earliest.

ETA: You may now leave your home for an essential job as well.

I hear ya but like I've mentioned in some other comments all of our rhetoric has been about lockdowns, shutdowns, stay at home order/shelter in place/safer at home order, etc. You can't really blame people (IMO) when everyone around them from government officials to their news (and all sorts from biased to unbiased) uses it.

I think perspective is good really and this thread is amazing for that.

As I said to someone else just because it wasn't China does not in fact mean it wasn't a lock down. Lock downs can be relevant to one's own area. To some states IIRC in the U.S. they were supposed to carry papers saying they were essential workers in case they were stopped by the police, in my state that was specifically mentioned by the governor that we didn't need that and police would not be stopping cars to make sure you had a reason to be on the road. I'm sure the person in the state that needed papers felt more restricted than I did. In CA you couldn't leave your home in some areas except for exercise (and it was a certain radius IIRC) I think at one point (or something more akin to that).

But the countries you mentioned were already different than the U.S. (as has been discussed). So in a country where for example the military has and uses so much more force on a daily basis it would make sense that they would employ that during this time period even as shocking it is to us. But to us it's shocking that in our country we would have the restrictions such that we did and do. In a country where drug cartels used to rule it would make sense that the experience would be more severe than our own even as scary the experiences posters have given us.

I guess I just give people more leeway right now. I'm soaking up knowledge gaining a new perspective but what we had going on during our stay at home order was unheard of before, no one could ever imagine that we would have our governor shut down all the school buildings in the state or that we could only see up to 10 people at once or that all the restaurants that couldn't do curbside or drive-thru would be required to shut down and all sorts of other businesses would be deemed non-essential. And we didn't even have it as restrictive as many other states did so I get perspective in that. In Michigan my husband's power plant that was in the midst of being built was not considered essential...well alrighty guess you don't want power added to your grid (they got a special waiver to continue work).

I'm sorry to hear about your son's separation from his g/f and I truly hope he gets to see her soon. FWIW that actually happened here too. If you didn't live together in some places you weren't supposed to see each other because you wouldn't be considered in the same household. In Michigan you would be fined monetarily if you were with someone who didn't have the same address as yours on their DL; irrespective of the fact that you could be considered the same cohort (as happened to a poster's friend who was on a boat with their significant other). Now would you be carted off by the military for being seen with each other? No (especially because the point was to keep people out of jails for minor offenses if possible) but I don't think that you have to have that happen for it to be considered highly restrictive to someone.