Covid And The Rest of Us

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

On the other hand, Switzerland just threw its borders pretty much wide open (only people coming in from Andorra, Armenia, Belgium, and Czechia (and parts of France) need to isolate on arrival as of this weekend). I think that the argument is that our numbers as so bad (one of the worst on per capita basis), so what's the point the point of keeping others out. Not a policy that I'd have chosen, but there we are.

Maybe you can answer my question from earlier. My state added Andorra (the only country presently on the list) to our quarantine list. I guess I could look up the stats but I figure you may be able to give more personal information. Is Andorra's numbers just really bad for their population? Do they have any restrictions or is is more like how Sweden was with their approach?

 

[AlohaNow]

I hear ya but like I've mentioned in some other comments all of our rhetoric has been about lockdowns, shutdowns, stay at home order/shelter in place/safer at home order, etc. You can't really blame people (IMO) when everyone around them from government officials to their news (and all sorts from biased to unbiased) uses it.

I think perspective is good really and this thread is amazing for that.

My fault, as I haven't actually read all 60 pages of this thread. (DISBoard faux pas!) I've popped in to read occasionally, think that it is a great thread, and just wanted to contribute a little bit of specific knowledge. I agree, when the media is constantly using the term lockdown it obviously creeps into our lexicon. I yell at my TV a lot these days. Americans say, my rights are being trampled upon, and I get the angle they are coming from because I've grown up in the US. Heck, no one tells us what to do, right? And then I look around to all the different countries where we have friends because of life connections and our involvement in a youth exchange program. And the differences are staggering. It's all just fascinating to me. At dinner we discuss when our US passports might be smiled upon again around the world. Not just for selfish reasons because we wish to travel, but we talk about the far-reaching implications of trade and the worldwide economy as well. We are all so much more connected, in so many ways, than many Americans like to think. This thread is a great reminder of that.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My fault, as I haven't actually read all 60 pages of this thread. (DISBoard faux pas!) I've popped in to read occasionally, think that it is a great thread, and just wanted to contribute a little bit of specific knowledge. I agree, when the media is constantly using the term lockdown it obviously creeps into our lexicon. I yell at my TV a lot these days. Americans say, my rights are being trampled upon, and I get the angle they are coming from because I've grown up in the US. Heck, no one tells us what to do, right? And then I look around to all the different countries where we have friends because of life connections and our involvement in a youth exchange program. And the differences are staggering. It's all just fascinating to me. At dinner we discuss when our US passports might be smiled upon again around the world. Not just for selfish reasons because we wish to travel, but we talk about the far-reaching implications of trade and the worldwide economy as well. We are all so much more connected, in so many ways, than many Americans like to think. This thread is a great reminder of that.

No really it's my bad. When I said I had mentioned the lock down thing it was actually on a different thread than this one in a conversation with other posters. That is my fault for not making that clear, you didn't do anything wrong and I can see how I made it sound that way, my apologies

And I completely agree with your comments above

 

[Karin1984]

So while Europe is on fire and one country after another closes down, Belgian hospitals say 'within 7- 10 days, ICUs are full and we have to make choices'... The Netherlands in all their wisdom announce: Themeparks cannot sell any food anymore, restaurants have to stop take out (sit down was already closed), but also souvenir shops cannot sell bottled drinks anymore...

Yes, we are going to win the war with this measure...

Go, the Netherlands!

 

[Planogirl]

So while Europe is on fire and one country after another closes down, Belgian hospitals say 'within 7- 10 days, ICUs are full and we have to make choices'... The Netherlands in all their wisdom announce: Themeparks cannot sell any food anymore, restaurants have to stop take out (sit down was already closed), but also souvenir shops cannot send bottled drinks anymore...

Yes, we are going to win the war with this measure...

Go, the Netherlands!

They seem to be keying on food and drink. I wonder what the logic behind that is?

 

[Karin1984]

They seem to be keying on food and drink. I wonder what the logic behind that is?

The order is: Restaurants have to close, only take out allowed.
Themeparks say: but people have to eat when they visit us.
The restaurant-branch started to protest how they can't be open, but in themeparks restaurants can be open.
So then the themeparks closed their indoor restaurants and only went for quick service with seating outside, or take out, thinking they obey the rules. But that's not enough.
The difference is that at a themepark you consume your food immediately, you do not take it home. You sit down somewhere and eat it then and there. Which can cause groups to get too close together.

I get the logic, but the amount of infections due to themeparks is so small in comparison to the infections people get at home or at school.

It's like when the roof on a two story house is leaking. The top floor is flooded, and from the ceiling to the ground floor there is a constant drip of water. The government is mopping up the drops on the ground floor instead of taking care of the top floor, let alone the roof.

 

[kyton]

While reading my daily news sites, I came across this article about Australia and its travel ban. It was eye opening to me since I was not aware that people were not allowed to leave. I thought they could leave and then quarantine upon return but apparently not according to this article. I know that there are a couple of people from Australia on the boards and wondered if they had a opinion on this either way or if it is an example of a news story being spun in a direction other than intended.

https://apnews.com/article/travel-v...alia-germany-4f64b1e5dda462b01f98b945553f198d

From my perspective as a 50yo Australian born woman - I fully support the Government (both state and federal) restrictions on travel. As my fellow Aussie here said, you can apply for an exemption however they are pretty hard to get. IMO a wedding whilst yes it would be sad to miss is not an emergency. A funeral would be more important in my eyes however in this woman’s case even she thought her father was more stable then the actuality was.

I’ll give you an example of how stringent all our rules have been - in late February our (adopted) Grandfather was hospitalised with terminal melanoma. My husband and I were his power of attorneys and appointed guardians. The hospitals in late March started to put into place visitation restrictions - by the beginning of April only 1 person in totality was allowed to visit him. This was chosen to be his girlfriend of 20yrs (they started dating when they were in their 60’s but remained living in separate houses). Our beloved Thomo passed away at the end of April and I was only permitted to see him after he had passed for a short time. The only time anyone else could see him was in the funeral home.

My two best friends are both nurses - one is in our ICU here in NSW’s second largest city. The other is a Matron of a nursing home specialising in dementia patients. They both have had to face this disease head on - and in the case of the nursing home implement and enforce extremely rigorous lockdown procedures to ultimately protect their patients. Yes the restrictions are hard but in the end, as a country Australia is doing so very well in protecting our citizens.

I would love to travel - even interstate - but at the moment we just need to suck it up and do what we are told. Australia will come through this with a minimum of deaths and our economy is already showing signs that we are recovering quite well.

As an island nation, we have to protect not only our people but our resources - we have to ship a lot of products in which has been an eye opener to our manufacturing industry (this really added to our initial struggles when Covid first hit - being so reliant on PPE / medical products from overseas). Already companies are pivoting to start making products that we had been reliant on other countries for - this too will assist in growing and strengthening our economy.

 

[elphaba91]

Thank you for your perspective. So does the government not trust people to quarantine upon return? Again I am just wondering and trying to understand the rules. I live in NY and while there is no official travel ban we are required to self quarantine from 43 states upon return. Does everyone follow this? Of course that would be a big no. But I feel that it still allows freedom to move about and there is an understanding that you should be doing your part for the community.

The fact that your health insurance would not cover you would be a big determinant. Is that because you have universal health care and not private insurance? I am pretty sure my health insurance would cover me. I have always been told by all the doctors that I have the Cadillac(expensive car) plan that pretty much covers everything at a low co pay.

That is why I always look for and read this thread first. I love the perspectives of all the people from different countries. We can so easily get caught up in our own little bubble that we forget about others.

Thank you for your perspective. So does the government not trust people to quarantine upon return? Again I am just wondering and trying to understand the rules. I live in NY and while there is no official travel ban we are required to self quarantine from 43 states upon return. Does everyone follow this? Of course that would be a big no. But I feel that it still allows freedom to move about and there is an understanding that you should be doing your part for the community.

The fact that your health insurance would not cover you would be a big determinant. Is that because you have universal health care and not private insurance? I am pretty sure my health insurance would cover me. I have always been told by all the doctors that I have the Cadillac(expensive car) plan that pretty much covers everything at a low co pay.

That is why I always look for and read this thread first. I love the perspectives of all the people from different countries. We can so easily get caught up in our own little bubble that we forget about others.

All arrivals from overseas (and in some cases interstate) have to quarantine in designated hotels under guard. Originally people could quarantine at home, but it was found there were too many breaches, either unintentional (e.g. people getting off an international flight and then taking a domestic flight or taking public transport or a taxi home) or blatant (there were many who just weren’t home when the police checked on them). There can be some exemptions, although unfortunately it often seems like being rich and famous is a good enough reason.

The problem in Victoria came about because the hotel quarantine wasn’t managed correctly and the private security guards hired by the government ended up catching then spreading the virus. There has been an inquiry into it and we are currently awaiting the report to find out exactly what went wrong and who is to blame. For that reason, all the states scaled back their international arrivals (with Victoria not taking any) to ensure that they can deal with them safely.

In terms of insurance, I was referring to travel insurance if you get sick and require treatment while overseas. I don’t believe any insurer is currently covering expenses incurred for travel booked after the pandemic was declared.

In Australia you can have private health insurance, which enables you to select your own doctor and be treated in a nicer hospital (but not better treatment) and have shorter waiting times for elective procedures. However, in Victoria they actually cancelled all non-urgent procedures, including at private hospitals, to free up staff, beds and equipment and prevent spread. I believe all COVID patients have been treated at public hospitals, meaning there would be no expense to them whatsoever unless they were from a foreign country without a reciprocal health care agreement with Australia. At the peak they did also place many aged care residents into private hospitals to ensure they were getting proper care whilst controlling the spread.

 

[NFLDERS]

Thank you for your perspective. So does the government not trust people to quarantine upon return? Again I am just wondering and trying to understand the rules. I live in NY and while there is no official travel ban we are required to self quarantine from 43 states upon return. Does everyone follow this? Of course that would be a big no. But I feel that it still allows freedom to move about and there is an understanding that you should be doing your part for the community.

The fact that your health insurance would not cover you would be a big determinant. Is that because you have universal health care and not private insurance? I am pretty sure my health insurance would cover me. I have always been told by all the doctors that I have the Cadillac(expensive car) plan that pretty much covers everything at a low co pay.

That is why I always look for and read this thread first. I love the perspectives of all the people from different countries. We can so easily get caught up in our own little bubble that we forget about others.

Just thought I'd interject there are insurance companies offering +Covid coverage now. Since we are not traveling at the time being what it is, I've not investigated further regarding this.

 

[NFLDERS]

From my perspective as a 50yo Australian born woman - I fully support the Government (both state and federal) restrictions on travel. As my fellow Aussie here said, you can apply for an exemption however they are pretty hard to get. IMO a wedding whilst yes it would be sad to miss is not an emergency. A funeral would be more important in my eyes however in this woman’s case even she thought her father was more stable then the actuality was.

I’ll give you an example of how stringent all our rules have been - in late February our (adopted) Grandfather was hospitalised with terminal melanoma. My husband and I were his power of attorneys and appointed guardians. The hospitals in late March started to put into place visitation restrictions - by the beginning of April only 1 person in totality was allowed to visit him. This was chosen to be his girlfriend of 20yrs (they started dating when they were in their 60’s but remained living in separate houses). Our beloved Thomo passed away at the end of April and I was only permitted to see him after he had passed for a short time. The only time anyone else could see him was in the funeral home.

My two best friends are both nurses - one is in our ICU here in NSW’s second largest city. The other is a Matron of a nursing home specialising in dementia patients. They both have had to face this disease head on - and in the case of the nursing home implement and enforce extremely rigorous lockdown procedures to ultimately protect their patients. Yes the restrictions are hard but in the end, as a country Australia is doing so very well in protecting our citizens.

I would love to travel - even interstate - but at the moment we just need to suck it up and do what we are told. Australia will come through this with a minimum of deaths and our economy is already showing signs that we are recovering quite well.

As an island nation, we have to protect not only our people but our resources - we have to ship a lot of products in which has been an eye opener to our manufacturing industry (this really added to our initial struggles when Covid first hit - being so reliant on PPE / medical products from overseas). Already companies are pivoting to start making products that we had been reliant on other countries for - this too will assist in growing and strengthening our economy.

My sincere condolences. Your post spoke volumns to me. During Sars my Dmil had open heart surgery, pig valve placement it was devastating for family. I too can relate to an Island's protection. I'm an inland or Mainland(er) Newfoundlander as most family refer to us. We have accepted and are following the Island's visit restrictions. Covid19 truly sucks...

 

[TLSnell1981]

My heart is broken as I see so many messages from our European friends regarding the cancellations during the Advent season. We’ve held out hope only to see it evaporate. We will miss our traditions but this is much more to others. It’s is their livelihood. I pray they survive these horrible times. Much love and God Bless!

 

[Karin1984]

And NL was yesterday under 10K new cases again!
We had some reporting issues the last few days, so fingers crossed this one was actually ok.

Other news:
- We get more test capacity in the next few weeks to make it possible for everyone to get tested within 24 hours.
- Our government was going to give 3.4 billion euro loan to our national airline. One condition was everyone (mainly the pilots) has to make a sacrifice in salary for five years (the runtime of the loan). Mainly the pilots said: no, we don't want that. We'll give 1.5 years and we will be committed to make this a healthy company again.
That was not good enough for the government, so now the loan is actually on hold. And the pilots have one more shot to sign, otherwise the airline most likely will go bankrupt within a year.
- Lot of illegal parties, daily we get articles of the police ending parties and fining people / establishments.
- There is a Dutch doctor who is chief exectuive for 7 hospitals in London, and he suggests to release the Astra Zeneca vaccin now, as more people are getting sick/dying from covid than the side effects of the vaccin.

 

[ronandannette]

And NL was yesterday under 10K new cases again!
We had some reporting issues the last few days, so fingers crossed this one was actually ok.

Other news:
- We get more test capacity in the next few weeks to make it possible for everyone to get tested within 24 hours.
- Our government was going to give 3.4 billion euro loan to our national airline. One condition was everyone (mainly the pilots) has to make a sacrifice in salary for five years (the runtime of the loan). Mainly the pilots said: no, we don't want that. We'll give 1.5 years and we will be committed to make this a healthy company again.
That was not good enough for the government, so now the loan is actually on hold. And the pilots have one more shot to sign, otherwise the airline most likely will go bankrupt within a year.
- Lot of illegal parties, daily we get articles of the police ending parties and fining people / establishments.
- There is a Dutch doctor who is chief exectuive for 7 hospitals in London, and he suggests to release the Astra Zeneca vaccin now, as more people are getting sick/dying from covid than the side effects of the vaccin.

New cases for what time period? Per day? All last week? Your total active cases? I guess I haven't been reading your posts closely enough but that seems like a HUGE number for your population. Currently Canada is holding steady at a very high rate - about 2,500 new cases daily nationwide.

Airlines here are in big trouble too. We've only got two national airlines and although they have not yet breathed the words "bankruptcy" out loud, they have certainly been decimated. Between the two there have been 26,000 lay-offs and I just read yesterday NavCanada (the government bureau responsible for air-traffic control) has or will cut staff by 40%. Multiply it all exponentially for all the support and peripheral services staff that have lost their jobs since March.

 

[Karin1984]

New cases for what time period? Per day? All last week? Your total active cases? I guess I haven't been reading your posts closely enough but that seems like a HUGE number for your population. Currently Canada is holding steady at a very high rate - about 2,500 new cases daily nationwide.

Airlines here are in big trouble too. We've only got two national airlines and although they have not yet breathed the words "bankruptcy" out loud, they have certainly been decimated. Between the two there have been 26,000 lay-offs and I just read yesterday NavCanada (the government bureau responsible for air-traffic control) has or will cut staff by 40%. Multiply it all exponentially for all the support and peripheral services staff that have lost their jobs since March.

Per day nationwide ;-) But we live very close together. 17,5 million people on 41.865 km2 versus 38 million people on 9.093.507 km2. It makes sense that countries in Europe do worse.

 

[Karin1984]

Today's figures are in, if the system reports it correctly again, we had 9.819 on Saturday, versus 8.740 on Sunday. If this continues tomorrow on Monday, it might change the measures we expect to get on Tuesday evening.

Fingers crossed!

 

[ronandannette]

Today's figures are in, if the system reports it correctly again, we had 9.819 on Saturday, versus 8.740 on Sunday. If this continues tomorrow on Monday, it might change the measures we expect to get on Tuesday evening.

Fingers crossed!

What kind of restrictions are looming? Here, it is extremely disheartening that are cases are rising because we have had very prudent restrictions since full re-launch in July and mandatory masking (with high compliance) since the beginning of August. Our provincial Chief Medical Officer with the full support of the government has repeatedly stated her commitment to not derailing commerce again; we are already reeling economically. As of Nov. 1 the approach will be much more stringent enforcement and penalties for non-compliance. We shall see if it makes a difference.

I watch Australia with great interest and trepidation. If the pattern follows suit and their easing of restrictions results in an immediate increase in cases, perhaps the rest of the world will get the idea that only draconian lock-down is sufficient?

 

[BadPinkTink]

I watch Australia with great interest and trepidation. If the pattern follows suit and their easing of restrictions results in an immediate increase in cases, perhaps the rest of the world will get the idea that only draconian lock-down is sufficient?

thats basically the same trend in Ireland

March April May strict lockdown

Easing of restrictions June July August, big push for stay cations, lots of domestic travel

Schools reopen, lots family gatherings in September

End of September second wave starts

End of October back into lockdown

 

[Karin1984]

What kind of restrictions are looming? Here, it is extremely disheartening that are cases are rising because we have had very prudent restrictions since full re-launch in July and mandatory masking (with high compliance) since the beginning of August. Our provincial Chief Medical Officer with the full support of the government has repeatedly stated her commitment to not derailing commerce again; we are already reeling economically. As of Nov. 1 the approach will be much more stringent enforcement and penalties for non-compliance. We shall see if it makes a difference.

I watch Australia with great interest and trepidation. If the pattern follows suit and their easing of restrictions results in an immediate increase in cases, perhaps the rest of the world will get the idea that only draconian lock-down is sufficient?

We are still pretty lenient, theaters, movie theaters, theme parks are still open, with a lot of restrictions how many people they can let in. We never had a forced closure of non-essential stores, many closed as no one was shopping. Highschools could go to partial online (younger kids versus older kids).

There is nothing that can tell what is the best option. Belgium and the Netherlands are very similar in the population, different age/ethnic groups etc, but also mentality. Belgium has been much stricter since March than the Netherlands. Belgium has reached 20K new cases yesterday.

I am more and more inclined to believe that it's just a case of bad luck how a country is doing. To have superspreaders at the wrong place at the wrong time.

A thing that has gone viral here is a post on social media of a mother whose eldest child (18 or something) thought it couldn't be that bad to go to a party. And she makes a list of all the people who got involved because of this party. Not just his own family, but also his brother who lives in a care facility, the brother was home when he returned from the party. Everyone in the care facility is impacted.
In total there were 8 kids getting together for a party, and she estimated that 400 people had to adjust their lives for the next 10 days to go into quarantine.
She ended her post with: And it wasn't even a good party.
In an update she gave later, 7 out of 8 kids tested positive.

 

[Jrb1979]

What kind of restrictions are looming? Here, it is extremely disheartening that are cases are rising because we have had very prudent restrictions since full re-launch in July and mandatory masking (with high compliance) since the beginning of August. Our provincial Chief Medical Officer with the full support of the government has repeatedly stated her commitment to not derailing commerce again; we are already reeling economically. As of Nov. 1 the approach will be much more stringent enforcement and penalties for non-compliance. We shall see if it makes a difference.

I watch Australia with great interest and trepidation. If the pattern follows suit and their easing of restrictions results in an immediate increase in cases, perhaps the rest of the world will get the idea that only draconian lock-down is sufficient?

I hope that's not what happens. The majority of the spread is happening mostly in schools and family gatherings now. They need to figure out a way to change that. I don't know what the answer is

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I hope that's not what happens. The majority of the spread is happening mostly in schools and family gatherings now. They need to figure out a way to change that. I don't know what the answer is

And ours is mostly just community spread-family gatherings and the like. Schools aren't a major contributor. Universities, when they were going back, when they had mandatory testing for at least some of them in the state yes they caught some bigger numbers there but otherwise it's a few cases here and there as well as in the K-12. Sometimes it's a football team (which is winding down anyways) or a school that out of caution quarantined a good amount but that does not translate into spread occurring in a meaningful to our numbers way. In my direct metro it's discussed that most of the cases in schools are from the community not spread from kid to kid within the school.