Lost DVC points

[CarolMN]

Just my opinion, and I've already stated this, and I hope I'm wrong, but I think DVC will not being granting any special exception for people in the position of losing points due to the closure. I myself have 610 points potentially at risk. I have an AUG UY, so I'm at a bit of an advantage because my RCI banking deadline is June 16th. I do have a little time to see how things play out come June. However, I also have a Disney Collection reservation at the DLR. If the DLR does not open by the end of July those points will be lost. They aren't eligible to be deposited into RCI and I have already missed my "Rule of 4" window to use them outside the Disney Collection in the Concierge Collection.

Carolyn - Since the points used for the DLR have already been converted to reservation points, the Rule of 4 should not apply. I'm almost 100% positive you can use them for anything in the Concierge Collection if you can find availability somewhere. Worth a call to MS to find out if you haven't already done so, and if you have been told no, I'd ask for a Supervisor. Since DVC has already converted your points, there's no need for the application of the Rule of 4.

 

[cmrdgrs]

They told me the 17th when I called last week. If all 90 points can be moved I'll take a better look to see if ANYTHING is even available for less than 100 points.

I'd take a look at it for sure. I know sometimes you can book individual nights when you're closer to a check-in date. I know it's not DVC and it's not perfect, but might be something.

 

[cmrdgrs]

Carolyn - Since the points used for the DLR have already been converted to reservation points, the Rule of 4 should not apply. I'm almost 100% positive you can use them for anything in the Concierge Collection if you can find availability somewhere. Worth a call to MS to find out if you haven't already done so, and if you have been told no, I'd ask for a Supervisor. Since DVC has already converted your points, there's no need for the application of the Rule of 4.

 

[cmrdgrs]

I was told what is posted on the DVC website about the rule of four ==>LINK

Q.
What is the Rule of Four?
A.
The Rule of Four guideline is that you cannot book and travel on the Disney Collection (excluding hotels at Disneyland Resort in California and Tokyo Disney Resort) and Concierge Collection vacations within the last 4 months of your Use Year. However, you can travel in the last 4 months of your Use Year as long as you've booked your stay more than 4 months before the end of your Use Year.

Now that I'm inside my last 4 months of my UY, my understanding is that the only place I can use my Disney Collection reservation points is at the DLR in CA. I literally rebooked my DLR reservation for the last 3 days of my UY to give me the best shot at using (or renting) the points.

 

[Sandisw]

I was told what is posted on the DVC website about the rule of four ==>LINK

Q.
What is the Rule of Four?
A.
The Rule of Four guideline is that you cannot book and travel on the Disney Collection (excluding hotels at Disneyland Resort in California and Tokyo Disney Resort) and Concierge Collection vacations within the last 4 months of your Use Year. However, you can travel in the last 4 months of your Use Year as long as you've booked your stay more than 4 months before the end of your Use Year.

Now that I'm inside my last 4 months of my UY, my understanding is that the only place I can use my Disney Collection reservation points is at the DLR in CA. I literally rebooked my DLR reservation for the last 3 days of my UY to give me the best shot at using (or renting) the points.

The key is you can not book and travel in the last 4 months because they need time to convert points,

Once points are already converted, it is always been my understanding you can then use them for any booking, no matter when.

I would get a clarification from MS.

 

[cmrdgrs]

The key is you can not book and travel in the last 4 months because they need time to convert points,

Once points are already converted, it is always been my understanding you can then use them for any booking, no matter when.

I would get a clarification from MS.

Ahhhhh! That's what is so awesome about these forums. As much as I feel I know, I always have more to learn. Thank you! I will double check on that!

 

[andyman8]

Interesting topic from today's Disney Dish podcast with Jim Hill and Len Testa. They were talking about some of the surveys DVC has sent out to membership recently and they talked about the possibility as a way to potentially ease availability issues after the closure and as sort of a make-good to affected members, they might offer DVC members the chance to use their points (especially "lost" banked points) at regular Disney Resorts at a point "price" that would be more in line with using your points for a villa at an adjacent DVC resort. I had heard something similar from a friend who is a guide with DVC recently but didn't put much stock into it. Seems like there might be some legal hurdles with it to say the least, but it's an interesting idea. This might also help solve the problem Disney is foreseeing regarding hotel inventory. I know there are many on this forum that think Disney is going to bursting at the seams with crowds when they reopen, but aside from a small initial reopening bump, the friends I've talked to inside TWDC foresee some serious issues filling 30,000+ hotel rooms.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Interesting topic from today's Disney Dish podcast with Jim Hill and Len Testa. They were talking about some of the surveys DVC has sent out to membership recently and they talked about the possibility as a way to potentially ease availability issues after the closure and as sort of a make-good to affected members, they might offer DVC members the chance to use their points (especially "lost" banked points) at regular Disney Resorts at a point "price" that would be more in line with using your points for a villa at an adjacent DVC resort. I had heard something similar from a friend who is a guide with DVC recently but didn't put much stock into it. Seems like there might be some legal hurdles with it to say the least, but it's an interesting idea. This might also help solve the problem Disney is foreseeing regarding hotel inventory. I know there are many on this forum that think Disney is going to bursting at the seams with crowds when they reopen, but aside from a small initial reopening bump, the friends I've talked to inside TWDC foresee some serious issues filling 30,000+ hotel rooms.

This only works if Disney is having trouble renting those rooms. Otherwise, Disney is forgoing paying customers to give away rooms for "free".

 

[andyman8]

This only works if Disney is having trouble renting those rooms. Otherwise, Disney is forgoing paying customers to give away rooms for "free".

As I said, Disney themselves is foreseeing issues with inventory (they didn't offer the Free Dining promotion just out of a pure desire to do guest recovery; they don't want people cancelling and walking away right now). There is a significant chance that on the other side of this pandemic, we're going to experience some sort of economic downturn (we're already experiencing it with tens of millions filing for unemployment), and that always means a decrease in occupancy rates at Disney Resorts. Plus, it is pretty clear that Disney Parks are not going to be operating at full capacity for some time and it's quite possible we'll see some significant capacity restrictions early on. That translates to less people coming to Disney and therefore less people filling rooms. So this seems like a win-win for Disney in that scenario.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

As I said, Disney themselves is foreseeing issues with inventory (they didn't offer the Free Dining promotion just out of a pure desire to do guest recovery; they don't want people cancelling and walking away right now). There is a significant chance that on the other side of this pandemic, we're going to experience some sort of economic downturn (we're already experiencing it with tens of millions filing for unemployment), and that always means a decrease in occupancy rates at Disney Resorts. Plus, it is pretty clear that Disney Parks are not going to be operating at full capacity for some time and it's quite possible we'll see some significant capacity restrictions early on. That translates to less people coming to Disney and therefore less people filling rooms. So this seems like a win-win for Disney in that scenario.

The bolded part. If the goal is to lower capacity how is giving away free rooms going to help with that?

I don't know what Disney is expecting in terms of people returning once this is all said and done. But I think it's pretty telling that the free dining promotion is only for those with cancelled reservations. If the promotion was really to sell more and less about guest recovery, I would expect this offer to be offered to the general public.

 

[andyman8]

The bolded part. If the goal is to lower capacity how is giving away free rooms going to help with that?

I don't know what Disney is expecting in terms of people returning once this is all said and done. But I think it's pretty telling that the free dining promotion is only for those with cancelled reservations. If the promotion was really to sell more and less about guest recovery, I would expect this offer to be offered to the general public.

Just because they offer the rooms doesn't mean they expect them to all be filled and that every guest in those rooms will go to the parks. Keep in mind, this isn't a strategy to fill the parks; it's a strategy to appease upset DVC members and avoid complications with inventory down the road. Plus, Disney wants the rooms to be filled regardless if those inside the rooms go to the parks or not. They'd rather have a full room with guests spending money on merchandise and dining even if just at their resort than an empty room.

And I wouldn't read too much into Disney not extending a general public free dining offer yet. That seemed to be more about keeping people's money and keeping a cashflow for Walt Disney Travel Co. than driving new bookings. In economic downturns and past downturns in occupancy, Disney has traditionally waited to drop discounts until they've gotten a firm understanding of the exact effects the larger issue is having on hotel occupancy, so that's probably a factor as well. More importantly, for the time being, it's hard to sell a new bookings promotion to a place with an opening date that is pretty much unknown. Note that while the Free Dining packages begin June 1, Disney has still extended its relaxed cancellation/change policies through June 30, which is a pretty good indication that they're still not certain June 1 is the magic day. That's also why they've stopped selling rooms for April or May. That said, Disney has quietly extended some significant room discounts through September, and as we get a better sense of the long-term impacts of this pandemic, I promise you you'll see another round of general public free dining and a further extension of those discounts.

Don't take my word for it; look at summer availability. There's quite a bit of it, and while Disney availability traditionally shrinks as we get closer to the dates, availability has only expanded. That's pretty telling. I'm not saying it's going to happen; I just thought it's an interesting idea and I don't think there's a better alternative for affected DVC Members a the moment. I'm just surprised why you seem to personally be so opposed to the idea?

 

[Sandisw]

Just because they offer the rooms doesn't mean they expect them to all be filled and that every guest in those rooms will go to the parks. Ultimately, Disney wants the rooms to be filled regardless if those inside the rooms go to the parks or not. They'd rather have a full room with guests spending money on merchandise and dining than an empty room.

And I wouldn't read too much into Disney not extending a general public free dining offer yet. That seemed to be more about keeping people's money and keeping a cashflow for Walt Disney Travel Co. than driving new bookings. In economic downturns and past downturns in occupancy, Disney has traditionally waited to drop discounts until they've gotten a firm understanding of the exact effects the larger issue is having on hotel occupancy, so that's probably a factor as well. More importantly, for the time being, it's hard to sell a new bookings promotion to a place with an opening date that is pretty much unknown. Note that while the Free Dining packages begin June 1, Disney has still extended its relaxed cancellation/change policies through June 30, which is a pretty good indication that they're still not certain June 1 is the magic day. That's also why they've stopped selling rooms for April or May. That said, Disney has quietly extended some significant room discounts through September, and as we get a better sense of the long-term impacts of this pandemic, I promise you you'll see another round of general public free dining and a further extension of those discounts.

Don't take my word for it; look at summer availability. There's quite a bit of it, and while Disney availability traditionally shrinks as we get closer to the dates, availability has only expanded. That's pretty telling. I'm not saying it's going to happen; I just thought it's an interesting idea and I don't think there's a better alternative for affected DVC Members a the moment. I'm just surprised why you seem to personally be so opposed to the idea?

The point is that in order for it to happen Parks and Resorts has to give up the deal they currently have with DVC in which owners exchange a DVC villa to book a regular hotel room. Disney then rents the DVC villa for cash and covers the lost revenue from the hotel room.

Disney has to agree to simply give rooms to DVC for nothing in return, Given that the potential loss they Are facing, I am not sure I see a reason for them to do it.

Ive said in other threads they can offer great discounts to get people into the parks...

Of course, we don’t know what is being decided and what kind of negotiation is currently happening.

 

[andyman8]

The point is that in order for it to happen Parks and Resorts has to give up the deal they currently have with DVC in which owners exchange a DVC villa to book a regular hotel room. Disney then rents the DVC villa for cash and covers the lost revenue from the hotel room.

Disney has to agree to simply give rooms to DVC for nothing in return, Given that the potential loss they Are facing, I am not sure I see a reason for them to do it.

Ive said in other threads they can offer great discounts to get people into the parks...

Of course, we don’t know what is being decided and what kind of negotiation is currently happening.

We'll just respectfully disagree then. Unless Disney offers ridiculous discounts they're not going to be able to fill every one of their 33,000+ rooms, and this may be another tool to at least fill more rooms and get some additional revenue from shopping and dining. I'm in the minority, but I just don't see demand bursting at the seams for Disney after they reopen. Yes, as a Disney fan, I can't wait to go and will go as soon as possible after they reopen, but the larger consensus I hear from people who aren't Disney fans (not that they don't like it but their attitude toward it is the same as their attitude toward any other destination) is that they definitely want to take a vacation after all of this but Disney (with its reputation for large crowds, lots of commonly touched spaces) might not be the top place on their lists for the time being. And with over 70% of WDW visitors being first-time visitors or visitors who have not been in over 5 years, Disney fans are not enough to sustain the parks and resorts even when they're operating at limited capacity. I have no stake in this, but it seems like a smart thing for Disney/DVC to consider and the fact that they're surveying members about it seems to indicate they're at least considering it. These are unprecedented times for TWDC, so I think we're all going to have to get used to things operating at WDW very differently than normal.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Just because they offer the rooms doesn't mean they expect them to all be filled and that every guest in those rooms will go to the parks. Keep in mind, this isn't a strategy to fill the parks; it's a strategy to appease upset DVC members and avoid complications with inventory down the road. Plus, Disney wants the rooms to be filled regardless if those inside the rooms go to the parks or not. They'd rather have a full room with guests spending money on merchandise and dining even if just at their resort than an empty room

So your suggesting that they are going to give away free rooms to DVC members, but then refuse to sell them tickets? Again, if the goal is to limit the capacity of the parks (it may or it may not be. That was your suggestion), how does bringing more people on property accomplish that?

And I wouldn't read too much into Disney not extending a general public free dining offer yet. That seemed to be more about keeping people's money and keeping a cashflow for Walt Disney Travel Co. than driving new bookings. In economic downturns and past downturns in occupancy, Disney has traditionally waited to drop discounts until they've gotten a firm understanding of the exact effects the larger issue is having on hotel occupancy, so that's probably a factor as well. More importantly, for the time being, it's hard to sell a new bookings promotion to a place with an opening date that is pretty much unknown. Note that while the Free Dining packages begin June 1, Disney has still extended its relaxed cancellation/change policies through June 30, which is a pretty good indication that they're still not certain June 1 is the magic day. That's also why they've stopped selling rooms for April or May. That said, Disney has quietly extended some significant room discounts through September, and as we get a better sense of the long-term impacts of this pandemic, I promise you you'll see another round of general public free dining and a further extension of those discounts.

Don't take my word for it; look at summer availability. There's quite a bit of it, and while Disney availability traditionally shrinks as we get closer to the dates, availability has only expanded. That's pretty telling. I'm not saying it's going to happen; I just thought it's an interesting idea and I don't think there's a better alternative for affected DVC Members a the moment. I'm just surprised why you seem to personally be so opposed to the idea?

In general, I don't disagree with you. I think that might be the best solution. I'm just pointing out that this would be an act of goodwill on Disney's part. They would essentially be giving up possible revenue as a way to appease some DVC members.

Edit: I also agree that I don't see demand being super hot for WDW once this is all over, so it may be a way to bring more people into the parks (if that's the goal?).

 

[Sandisw]

We'll just respectfully disagree then. Unless Disney offers ridiculous discounts they're not going to be able to fill every one of their 33,000+ rooms, and this may be another tool to at least fill more rooms and get some additional revenue from shopping and dining. I'm in the minority, but I just don't see demand bursting at the seams for Disney after they reopen. Yes, as a Disney fan, I can't wait to go and will go as soon as possible after they reopen, but the larger consensus I hear from people who aren't Disney fans (not that they don't like it but their attitude toward it is the same as their attitude toward any other destination) is that they definitely want to take a vacation after all of this but Disney (with its reputation for large crowds, lots of commonly touched spaces) might not be the top place on their lists for the time being. And with over 70% of WDW visitors being first-time visitors or visitors who have not been in over 5 years, Disney fans are not enough to sustain the parks and resorts even when they're operating at limited capacity. I have no stake in this, but it seems like a smart thing for Disney/DVC to consider and the fact that they're surveying members about it seems to indicate they're at least considering it. These are unprecedented times for TWDC, so I think we're all going to have to get used to things operating at WDW very differently than normal.

Sure, and I’ve said elsewhere, I just don’t believe that if they are going to give rooms for free, there aren’t other groups of park goers who would be just as good candidates for those free rooms,

But, absolutely, they may be deciding to do it, and if they do then owners will be happy.

It is not an easy thing and some seem to feel that Disney is responsible to DVC and its a little sad that too many believe we are more entitled to a deal over others.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Sure, and I’ve said elsewhere, I just don’t believe that if they are going to give rooms for free, there aren’t other groups of park goers who would be just as good candidates for those free rooms,

But, absolutely, they may be deciding to do it, but its not an easy thing and some seem to feel that Disney is responsible to DVC and its a little sad that too many believe we are more entitled to a deal over others.

We've been basing spewing out the same thing on this and a multiple other threads, but this is where I have to disagree.

I don't think we are entitled to any compensation from Disney over lost points (see the millions of posts both you and I have made about the risks), but I do think that IF Disney were to offer a goodwill gesture, DVC members should be their #1 priority. We are the ones who made a "lifetime" commitment to Disney. We are the ones who took those risks and spent large sums of money. If they are going to pitch the "lifetime of memories" at us when selling DVC, the expectation should be that they treat us like we are valued customers for a lifetime and not with the thought of "we already have their money so let's focus on getting new customers".

I don't believe they have to compensate anyone out of their own pockets (other than providing free cancellations for cash reservations) but I believe if they choose to, we should be at the top of the list.

 

[starry_solo]

I don’t think they would let people have a hotel room for the comparable cost of a studio. IF Disney let them do it and figured out a way with DVC to be able to make some money on it, they would charge the Disney Collection points but not the $95 fee to use them

 

[Sandisw]

We've been basing spewing out the same thing on this and a multiple other threads, but this is where I have to disagree.

I don't think we are entitled to any compensation from Disney over lost points (see the millions of posts both you and I have made about the risks), but I do think that IF Disney were to offer a goodwill gesture, DVC members should be their #1 priority. We are the ones who made a "lifetime" commitment to Disney. We are the ones who took those risks and spent large sums of money. If they are going to pitch the "lifetime of memories" at us when selling DVC, the expectation should be that they treat us like we are valued customers for a lifetime and not with the thought of "we already have their money so let's focus on getting new customers".

I don't believe they have to compensate anyone out of their own pockets (other than providing free cancellations for cash reservations) but I believe if they choose to, we should be at the top of the list.

I agree that we probably don’t see that aspect the same! But I will add that I am sure DVCM does and they will be the ones who know where Disney stands!

And maybe my thoughts come from people who seem to believe that Disney is obligated and if they don’t, they have thrown members under the bus,

 

[cmrdgrs]

Carolyn - Since the points used for the DLR have already been converted to reservation points, the Rule of 4 should not apply. I'm almost 100% positive you can use them for anything in the Concierge Collection if you can find availability somewhere. Worth a call to MS to find out if you haven't already done so, and if you have been told no, I'd ask for a Supervisor. Since DVC has already converted your points, there's no need for the application of the Rule of 4.

@CarolMN
Based on the press conference yesterday with Governor Newsom, I started to give up hope that my DLR reservation will happen. I finally got around to calling DVC MS and you are correct CarolMN. Since my DVC points are already converted to Reservation points I can "redirect" them to either a different Disney Collection reservation or the Concierge Collection (as long as I don't need extra points to travel in the Concierge Collection). Thank you for pointing this out to me. Holding out hope that just a resort stay at the DLR is possible at the end of July, because I do not see a lot of other options for these points

 

[CarolMN]

@CarolMN
Based on the press conference yesterday with Governor Newsom, I started to give up hope that my DLR reservation will happen. I finally got around to calling DVC MS and you are correct CarolMN. Since my DVC points are already converted to Reservation points I can "redirect" them to either a different Disney Collection reservation or the Concierge Collection (as long as I don't need extra points to travel in the Concierge Collection). Thank you for pointing this out to me. Holding out hope that just a resort stay at the DLR is possible at the end of July, because I do not see a lot of other options for these points

Hope it works out for you. That's a lot points to lose.