Mass shooting in Toronto?

[AnnaFloridaLover]

So, from reading around, it seems like Toronto has a gang and gun problem. (It's ok, we won't hold it against them. Lots of cities and other places do, too; few are immune. Gangs of various origins have apparently been part of the landscape there for over a century, as they have been in many places, including where I live.)

Police there added 200 extra police officers on the night shift this summer (7pm-3am) as that seemed to be when most violence was happening. They're looking at ways to decrease their crime, and that includes getting young people who have the potential to join gangs involved in community programs to help steer them away from that life.

I don't see that that's so different than many other very large cities in North America (with Toronto reportedly being the fourth largest).

People there are calling for gun control, as well. It brings up the age old question of whether the problem is the guns, or the people who use the guns.

I'm getting the sense that there are other things that people (not just Kim) don't want to talk about. I think we (general we) need to talk about them, though, if we're going to solve these problems (forum rules notwithstanding).

That is all just general info, though, and not specific to last night's shooting. I was just surprised to read that tweet last night (that said that gun violence there had gotten "crazy") so I wanted to figure out why. That's all I've got.

Canada doesn't have a gun control problem like the US. It's very hard to obtain a licence for a hand gun. There is a huge problem with guns being illegally smuggled across the border and those are the ones almost exclusively used in crimes with gangs and possibly the gun used last night for the mass shooting although the latter has yet to be determined.

 

[L&Lfan]

Changed my mind about commenting.

 

[declansdad]

Me step daughter lives and works right in the city and of course I txt her right away when things happen. My wife is sitting now in Pearson, waiting to come to Orlando where I am now at. She's much safer there than most cities. In fact I doubt most dis folk really understand how dangerous Orlando really is. Wife learned the hard way last Sunday when she had $1000 removed from her pocket book at Florida Mall in Orlando.I hope I'm wrong, but the time is coming where Toronto will no longer be as safe. To easy a target for those who wish to do harm to the west. Not saying this was the case this time. Just my opinion. The average Canadian doesn't understand how dangerous a place the world is. Or just doesn't want to understand.

Please stop pretending that you understand Canada or Canadians.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Canada doesn't have a gun control problem like the US. It's very hard to obtain a licence for a hand gun. There is a huge problem with guns being illegally smuggled across the border and those are the ones almost exclusively used in crimes with gangs and possibly the gun used last night for the mass shooting although the latter has yet to be determined.

Ok. So I've read enough tonight to know that there seems to be a similar phenomenon in Canada re the debate on gun violence that there is in the U.S. - some blame the guns themselves, and others blame social and psychological factors. Some, no doubt, fall in the middle and think it's a multifactorial problem.

I do have some questions for those more familiar with this than I am (if they feel comfortable answering!).

How do they know for sure where guns come from (short of people getting caught with them at the borders)? Isn't there still a major problem with the federal gun registration program in Canada? Have court systems and judges traditionally been lenient on perpetrators of gun crimes? And are not guns from Europe (Swiss, Czech) part of their problem as well, i.e. are there guns that are imported, not just smuggled? Are legal handguns stolen a part of the problem? How to account for this comment from Mayor Tory earlier this month?

"It is still far too easy for people to buy multiple guns in our city, in our country, perfectly lawfully and never really have to account again for where those guns are or whose hands they have fallen into," Tory said."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/mayor-says-violence-gang-related-1.4731799

(I realize today he is calling for stricter gun laws, but in most articles before today, he's been talking about gang violence and community interventions as primary solutions.)

Just trying to understand.

 

[ronandannette]

I’m in midtown Toronto and am horrified by this event. We go to this area all the time as a family to walk and have dinner. I have lived here all my life and have never heard of anything of this scale. It’s very upsetting.

The shooter has been identified and named. He has apparently been struggling with psychosis and mental health issues his whole life. It sounds like his family tried their best to support him but there is a limit to how much they could do. They could not have known he would evolve into someone who would do something like this.

Toronto has a gun problem relative to Toronto of a few years past, but certainly not on the level of many other major cities. Unfortunately, gangs and weapons will find their way into any place. They are not picky. But, this was not a gang related crime.

ETA for those wondering how Toronto compares to other cities crime-wise and if it is “not safe”: Our population is just over 2.8 million. Last year, there were 61 homicides. There were 375 shooting events. I’m not sure how this compares to many other major cities, but the homicide rate and gun-related statistic is about an eighth of a few other places I checked.

So, if you have family or friends who live or visit here- don’t worry

https://edmontonsun.com/2017/09/24/...nada/wcm/6f3b3742-74a3-4e11-b8f0-cc1f4b08a049
This article is very concise and informative on homicide rates/violent crime in Canadian cities. One interesting thing to note is that most homicides are perpetrated amongst people known to one another - namely gang violence and domestic abuse. The odds of being a victim of random violent crime are very low.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

Ok. So I've read enough tonight to know that there seems to be a similar phenomenon in Canada re the debate on gun violence that there is in the U.S. - some blame the guns themselves, and others blame social and psychological factors. Some, no doubt, fall in the middle and think it's a multifactorial problem.

I do have some questions for those more familiar with this than I am (if they feel comfortable answering!).

How do they know for sure where guns come from (short of people getting caught with them at the borders)? Isn't there still a major problem with the federal gun registration program in Canada? Have court systems and judges traditionally been lenient on perpetrators of gun crimes? And are not guns from Europe (Swiss, Czech) part of their problem as well, i.e. are there guns that are imported, not just smuggled? Are legal handguns stolen a part of the problem? How to account for this comment from Mayor Tory earlier this month?

"It is still far too easy for people to buy multiple guns in our city, in our country, perfectly lawfully and never really have to account again for where those guns are or whose hands they have fallen into," Tory said."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/mayor-says-violence-gang-related-1.4731799

(I realize today he is calling for stricter gun laws, but in most articles before today, he's been talking about gang violence and community interventions as primary solutions.)

Just trying to understand.

It's too political for me to talk about here. Keep googling.

 

[kimblebee]

Please stop pretending that you understand Canada or Canadians.

Say it louder for the people in the back!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

It's too political for me to talk about here. Keep googling.

Done for the night with the exception of trying to figure out why and how a person with long term mental illness like the shooter's had a gun.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

Done for the night with the exception of trying to figure out why and how a person with long term mental illness like the shooter's had a gun.

He probably did not obtain it legally.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Canada doesn't have a gun control problem like the US. It's very hard to obtain a licence for a hand gun. .

My Dad had a hand gun. Not that hard to get a license.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

My Dad had a hand gun. Not that hard to get a license.

When did he purchase this hand gun? There are many loops required to obtain a hand gun.

All licensing and registration is managed by the RCMP's Canadian Firearms Program (CFP), under the Deputy Commissioner Policing Support Services (PSS). In the Canadian system, there are three classes of firearms and firearm licences: non-restricted, restricted and prohibited. Prohibited firearms are not forbidden outright, as the name might imply, but their legal possession and acquisition are dependent upon their registration history and an individual's firearm licence.[23] As of December 1, 1998, the prohibited clause must be grandfathered to acquire or possess prohibited firearms. New prohibited licences are available only at the discretion of the Chief Firearms Officer of the province or the RCMP[citation needed]. See Classification of firearms below for complete details on prohibited, restricted and non-restricted firearms.

Individuals who wish to possess or acquire firearms in Canada must have a valid possession-acquisition, or possession-only, licence (PAL/POL); either of these licences allows the licensee to purchase ammunition. The PAL is distributed exclusively by the RCMP and is generally obtained in the following three steps:

1. Safety training: To be eligible to receive a PAL, all applicants must successfully complete the Canadian Firearms Safety Course[24] (CFSC) for a non-restricted licence, and the Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course[25] (CRFSC) for a restricted licence; the non-restricted class is a prerequisite to the restricted licence. Each province/territory's chief firearms officer publishes information on the locations and availability of these courses.[26]
2. Applying for a licence: Currently only one type of licence is available to new applicants, the possession-acquisition licence (PAL). People can request a PAL by filling out Form CAFC 921.[27]
3. Security screening: Background checks and reference interviews are performed. All applicants are screened, and a mandatory 28-day waiting period is imposed on first-time applicants, but final approval time may be longer.[28]

Licences are typically valid for five years and must be renewed prior to expiry to maintain all classes. Once licensed, an individual can apply for a firearm transfer;[29] and an authorization to transport (ATT) for restricted firearms.[30] People may hunt with firearms in Canada only with non-restricted firearms, and this requires an additional "Hunting with Firearms" course.

Here's a simple breakdown of the difference in Canada vs US:

https://www.vox.com/2014/10/24/7047547/canada-gun-law-us-comparison

 

[Gumbo4x4]

https://edmontonsun.com/2017/09/24/...nada/wcm/6f3b3742-74a3-4e11-b8f0-cc1f4b08a049
This article is very concise and informative on homicide rates/violent crime in Canadian cities. One interesting thing to note is that most homicides are perpetrated amongst people known to one another - namely gang violence and domestic abuse. The odds of being a victim of random violent crime are very low.

True of homicides most places, I imagine. Definitely true for the US & Mexico.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Some information about the shooter:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/faisal-hussein-friends-1.4758969

 

[kimblebee]

Oh good, another thread where certain posters try to prove Canada is just as bad as the States. Seems like the usual suspects are here already...

 

[Pea-n-Me]

- This was tough for a kitchen worker:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/danforth-mass-shooting-toronto-girl-1.4758531

- And the 18 year old young woman who died had just graduated high school and was starting college as a Nursing major soon:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/danforth-logan-shooting-1.4757409

Very sad.

 

[ronandannette]

Oh good, another thread where certain posters try to prove Canada is just as bad as the States. Seems like the usual suspects are here already...

I don’t understand these comments. It’s not a contest. Any amount of “bad” is bad enough. Events like this are unthinkably tragic no matter where they happen. This one happened here, just as did the van attacks in Toronto and Edmonton and the multiple murders of Mounties in Alberta and New Brunswick and the massacres at the Mosque and University in Quebec. Our nation grieves. That these things are less frequent here than elsewhere is something to be humbly grateful for, not smug about.

 

[kimblebee]

I don’t understand these comments. It’s not a contest. Any amount of “bad” is bad enough. Events like this are unthinkably tragic no matter where they happen. This one happened here, just as did the van attacks in Toronto and Edmonton and the multiple murders of Mounties in Alberta and New Brunswick and the massacres at the Mosque and University in Quebec. Our nation grieves. That these things are less frequent here than elsewhere is something to be humbly grateful for, not smug about.

Are you saying I’m being smug? I’m totally not. Of course bad stuff happens here; we’re not perfect. I think I said that upthread. I just don’t like the crowd that gathers at these types of threads. That’s all..

 

[mummabear]

I don’t understand these comments. It’s not a contest. Any amount of “bad” is bad enough. Events like this are unthinkably tragic no matter where they happen. This one happened here, just as did the van attacks in Toronto and Edmonton and the multiple murders of Mounties in Alberta and New Brunswick and the massacres at the Mosque and University in Quebec. Our nation grieves. That these things are less frequent here than elsewhere is something to be humbly grateful for, not smug about.

Of course not, what I think people.mean is like this one:

First let me say that I'm very sorry for those that lost their lives (except the shooter).

But, according to a few posters here this sort of thing NEVER happens in Canada. This goes to show it happens EVERYWHERE. Sad that the world has gotten so bad it does happen though.

To me this reads as "we don't really have a problem since everyone has it" and comes across a bit smug

I'd it a competition, well no, but I would be quiet happy for my government to be striving to be the winner of the "fewest violent crimes Olympics"

 

[ronandannette]

Are you saying I’m being smug? I’m totally not. Of course bad stuff happens here; we’re not perfect. I think I said that upthread. I just don’t like the crowd that gathers at these types of threads. That’s all..

Amongst us all maybe you have grounds for smugness. I couldn’t find a single example in recent history of an instance of mass violence in Manitoba. (My research does show that more people get eaten there by polar bears per 100,000 than virtually any place in the States though.)

 

[bcla]

Amongst us all maybe you have grounds for smugness. I couldn’t find a single example in recent history of an instance of mass violence in Manitoba. (My research does show that more people get eaten there by polar bears per 100,000 than virtually any place in the States though.)

Sure about that? I vaguely recall that there were a couple of fatal polar bear maulings in New York City. Something about misplaced youth, and climbing fences at zoos. That, and polar bears are unrepentant killers. Even at a zoo.