Taking a beating in the stock market

@dvcgirl67 thank you for sharing your expertise.

I'm 37, DH is 42. Both of us have pensions in addition to my 403b and his 401K. We didn't move fast enough to sell or move our money before the drop. Do you suggest we just stay and ride it out? (That's our plan.) Do you have any suggestions on ways to better educate ourselves on this? We are fortunate that we live comfortably, are not financially impacted by COVID 19 (teacher & military), and farm with little debt.
 
@dvcgirl67 thank you for sharing your expertise.

I'm 37, DH is 42. Both of us have pensions in addition to my 403b and his 401K. We didn't move fast enough to sell or move our money before the drop. Do you suggest we just stay and ride it out? (That's our plan.) Do you have any suggestions on ways to better educate ourselves on this? We are fortunate that we live comfortably, are not financially impacted by COVID 19 (teacher & military), and farm with little debt.

We stuck it out through 1987, 2000, 2008. As long as it is long term money you won't be needing soon, the stock market has the most potential upside in the long run. That's how I am advising my kids. We're retired and planning to move next year from a lower cost area to a high cost one, I have half the money in cash for our new home in CD's. There are a couple more things I wish I had sold before the downturn, but I am hoping in a year it will be somewhat better.
 
@dvcgirl67 thank you for sharing your expertise.

I'm 37, DH is 42. Both of us have pensions in addition to my 403b and his 401K. We didn't move fast enough to sell or move our money before the drop. Do you suggest we just stay and ride it out? (That's our plan.) Do you have any suggestions on ways to better educate ourselves on this? We are fortunate that we live comfortably, are not financially impacted by COVID 19 (teacher & military), and farm with little debt.

For one thing, you guys are 10+ years younger than my husband and me. So timeline is really important, and yours is longer than ours. We're planning on retiring in about 8 years. Typically investment advisors will say to stay invested as long as you have at least 5 years until you need the money, but this particular crisis is such an economic shock (caused by a global health emergency), that it's not inconceivable that it could take 8 years for the market to return to the highs of February of this year.

I base this solely on my personal investment experience. It took the market 5 years, from the highs of 2007 all the way until 2012 to get back to that same level. And the S&P 500 took 7 years to return from the highs of the dot.com bubble of 2000....so all the way until 2007 until that returned. Does that mean that you don't make money along the way as you continue to invest, of course not. But because our nest egg is over 3/4 of the way to "our number"....the possibility of seeing that number go in 1/2....or worse...only to see the original amount return to market return to 29,600 years and years from now. Well, it wasn't a risk we were willing to take. It would have greatly impacted our ability to retire on time.

Our personal assessment is that this event is bigger than the dot.com bubble/recession, and the 2007-09 housing crisis/Great Recession. I could be wrong, but that's what we're basing our investment decisions on right now.

Do you have an investment advisor that can speak to you about assess allocation? If you're anxious with our mix of stocks/bonds/international, you can take some risk out of that portfolio by taking some profits in stocks and shifting some over to bonds. There are funds that do this automatically for you. I'd speak to someone about that if you're having trouble sleeping at night.

We have always managed our portfolio, and so we felt comfortable pulling out when we did to see how this whole thing shakes out. And listen, if this stock market holds where it is and gets back to some semblance of normalcy, there would be no one happier than I am. Going into this, we were in a position that we just needed a 4% return over the next 8 years to hit "our number". So...we just couldn't watch that portfolio go in half and still sleep at night.

Best of luck to you!
 
I too am a teacher (age 59), DH is in the private sector (also 59). We plan to retire in 4 years. I only begin teaching 15 years ago. I will have a pension, money from 403B, and money in 401ks from my previous job. My DH will have a small pension and 401ks from his previous employers as well.

We have no debt, downsized a few years ago and new home is paid off. Our asset allocation at this point is about 60/40 (bonds/stocks). We have some other investments in a brokerage account that are a bit more aggressive. We've taken profits from this account and paid off mortgage and paid for our only daughter's wedding.

My plan is to have enough cash on hand to supplement our first 8 years of retirement before I collect social security at 67. We will wait until my husband is 70 before he collects. With this strategy, I intend to just ride out the market.
 


We have another 20 years to go before we need to look at using our stock market retirement benefits. I am thinking now would be a good time for us to buy, but I don't have a clue where to start. We both started investing in our early 20's and should have pensions that will serve us well. We're in our forever home, and overall in a good place.
 


My 401k is back to even. My personal is still down 7%. I’ll see what the job numbers look like next week before shifting my AA some more.
That’s fantastic, your portfolio manager must have really put some work into the accounts. The hubs 401k is bonds and vanguard. He’s afraid to log in and see the damage.
 
I don't buy individual stock, but if you do, I will be willing to bet that you'll get another shot at Disney at a much cheaper price. Full disclosure, my husband and I are 52 and 51 years old and have been concerned since the end of 2019 that the market was overvalued by probably 10-20%....pre-pandemic. We, like many others, had incredible returns over 2019...25-29% in our respective investments. Our allocation at year end was 85% US equities, 11% international and 4% bonds. Instead of pulling completely out of the market at that time, we moved everything into Vanguard's VBIAX, essentially their 60 stock/40 bond fund in mid January. The most conservative allocation we'd ever set up.

We were also paying close attention to the news about this virus and wondering if we should get out altogether. Around February 20th...the market really started to react to the reality that we would not be spared, but still, the news wasn't dire. Then on February 25th, a day after the Dow dropped by around 1,000 points....I heard a woman named Nancy Messioneir from the CDC. It was just a recording of a call she had with reporters. I was out running errands and listening to the news. Something she said during that call was so alarming to me that I pulled over.

She said, "The American public needs to prepare for major disruption to our daily lives. It’s not so much of a question of if this will happen anymore but rather more of a question of exactly when this will happen." She said that cities and towns should plan for “social distancing measures,” like dividing school classes into smaller groups of students or closing schools altogether. Meetings and conferences may have to be canceled, she said. Businesses should arrange for employees to work from home." “We are asking the American public to work with us to prepare, in the expectation that this could be bad,”

I called my husband immediately, and he put sell orders in for everything. Because it's all mutual funds, we didn't get out until the close that day, but because we'd moved to a balanced fund, our portfolio was down just 4% from the market high. Obviously now that we're out, it's nearly impossible to decide when to get back in, but I'm not buying that this market has bottomed.

It makes sense that certain company's stocks may have bottomed. Everyone got slaughtered, and so some of the rebound is traders buying individual companies that are going to be just fine and some of these stocks were definitely on sale. It also is rallying because it looks like the NY metro area is peaking as far as infections. That's...great news. It's also being pushed higher by traders who shorted the market and are now being forced to cover their bets. And finally, it's rallying because the Treasury and Federal Reserve are doing more than has ever been done in the history of this country to prevent us from going into another Great Depression.

But this is almost exactly what happened during the Great Recession....very similar trading pattern. But no matter how much the Treasury and Fed are doing here, incredible, historic damage is being done to our economy. There will be a massive wave of defaults and bankruptcies. That's just going to happen. The stimulus money is taking too long to get to individuals and Main Street....it's barely trickling out. By the time it gets to many of these small businesses, it will be too late for some of them to make it. And finally, even though most Americans will remain employed, we're going to have very high unemployment for the next year or more. And Americans who have kept their jobs are likely going to change their behavior for quite awhile as we come out of our "lockdown" mode. We're all likely to be very tentative with our wallets for quite some time.

When I think of all of that, and now with the market down just 20% or so from the highs....well, the market was 20% overpriced before all of this. It won't be until all of the economic carnage is really understood that we see the actual bottom of this market. However, the market will turn higher before the worst of the economic fallout is understood. So...our plan is to dollar cost average in on the next leg down and continue to do so until we're fully invested back into our balanced fund. Currently we're in Vanguards' US treasury fund. And even that kept me up for a couple of nights...until the Fed stepped in and backstopped the treasury market. Definitely stressful times for all!
My child is from China so I follow their news a little more than the average person I’m sure. When I heard about the virus in Jan, I cashed out everything but NVAX and Carnival (big mistake on carnival). I’ve been actively day trading NVAX for four months now. I am up on my accounts, a lot.
 
That’s fantastic, your portfolio manager must have really put some work into the accounts. The hubs 401k is bonds and vanguard. He’s afraid to log in and see the damage.

I manage my own. I sold when it broke below the 300 day moving average, and I started buying back when it broke below a 20 PE. I use the WSJs PEs for the S&P 500. It moved ridiculously fast this time compared to the 2008 recession.

I wasn't as aggressive or as fast with my personal portfolio, so that's why it's still lagging with a 7% loss YTD.
 
Trying to "time" the market is difficult. Long term stocks are your best choice. You just have to start thinking as you get closer to retirement about safer investments. My wife, against our financial advisers recommendation. about 8 years ago she shifted her entire 401k to money market funds. Her reasoning, there was enough money in the account for us to live on comfortably for the rest of our lives. She did not want to risk losing principle. 6 months ago our financial adviser ran the numbers on the investment she was in and figured she missed out on over $100,000 in gains because of that. Two weeks ago he ran the numbers and she was $15,000 ahead of the game. We hope to retire at the end of the year. Now the investments under our financial adviser's control are all in annuities with locked in values that will start paying nice distributions in 2 years. The difference between the cash out value and the lock in value is over $100,000 right now. As long as we don't cash out, we are golden.

EDITED: Just looked everything up. Took a big hit earlier this year, As of close of business yesterday recouped just over 60%.
 
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I finally looked at my teacher retirement 401k today. I am down 100K and had hoped to retire in four years. Not gonna happen.

100 k is a lot but not for you to change your mind about retirement imo. In four years a lot can happen. Your not going to take out all your money in one year. Let’s say you have 500 k in there. The first year you take out 20 k. You will still have 480k in there for that to make money. Second year you take out 22k but your 401k is now at 495k Than you will have 473 k in there to make money. Than your third year you take out. Well you get the point. Teachers get a good pension so you probably won’t have to take out that much. So you will have even more money to make more money. Enjoy your retirement
 
100 k is a lot but not for you to change your mind about retirement imo. In four years a lot can happen. Your not going to take out all your money in one year. Let’s say you have 500 k in there. The first year you take out 20 k. You will still have 480k in there for that to make money. Second year you take out 22k but your 401k is now at 495k Than you will have 473 k in there to make money. Than your third year you take out. Well you get the point. Teachers get a good pension so you probably won’t have to take out that much. So you will have even more money to make more money. Enjoy your retirement


Fellow teacher here and that was my thought as well. We're fortunate that we get a nice pension. My plan is to have the cash, in addition to the pension, to pay for our living expenses until I can collect social security (8 years) after retiring. This has been my strategy all along so that I wouldn't be forced to withdraw from our retirement accounts.

I wouldn't delay retirement. Your money will rebound nicely.
 
I'm not watching the wild gyrations of the stock market. I don't normally, I don't now. We're on track for retirement, so it's all good. I probably should worry more about DD16's college fund--she starts next fall--but she's likely going to the state's flagship university, and it's (comparatively) inexpensive. We have a certain amount earmarked for her, enough to generously fund 4 years of private school. But, she wants law school, so she'll go the inexpensive route for undergrad to save money. So, it's less of a concern how it's invested today.

DH starts a new job tomorrow that will provide us with another pension, putting us at 4 pensions plus SS. We can afford to be nonchalant about the stock market. Which is nice, because it frees me up to freak out about other things, ha ha.
 
I'm not watching the wild gyrations of the stock market. I don't normally, I don't now. We're on track for retirement, so it's all good. I probably should worry more about DD16's college fund--she starts next fall--but she's likely going to the state's flagship university, and it's (comparatively) inexpensive. We have a certain amount earmarked for her, enough to generously fund 4 years of private school. But, she wants law school, so she'll go the inexpensive route for undergrad to save money. So, it's less of a concern how it's invested today.

DH starts a new job tomorrow that will provide us with another pension, putting us at 4 pensions plus SS. We can afford to be nonchalant about the stock market. Which is nice, because it frees me up to freak out about other things, ha ha.

Congrats to your DH on the new job. I don't think anyone should freak out over the stock market if you have a long timeline, not at all. The nearly 20% drop in late 2018 was an event that I barely paid attention to. It involved the tariffs we put in place, Brexit concerns and also that the corporate tax cuts had fueled the stock market (because a lot of large corporations used that tax cut to buy back their own shares of stock)...among other things. It felt like a necessary correction to us. We didn't sell a thing, kept on investing into our accounts as always.

This however, even with the recent rally back, is very different. The market rallied back on news that the virus has likely peaked in NY/NJ/CT. It's rallying because the Federal Reserve came out with another 600 billion dollar loan facility for mid-sized businesses. But I think that the while all of that is good, but not great news, that we have not even begun to evaluate the destruction that has occurred to our economy. The European Central Bank just came out yesterday with revised GDP number of negative 10% for 2020. That's twice as bad as the Great Recession.

And while Europe will surely be in worse shape after this than the US is, we have certainly learned during this pandemic that we are all connected. We may come out of this in slightly better shape than Europe or China, but our largest trading partner is....Europe....second largest....China. I saw a survey of US economist and as a group they predicted that we won't reach pre-pandemic unemployment levels until 2022-2023. These major trading partners just aren't going to be buying as much from us as they did pre-pandemic. Not for quite some time. This is going to be a slog.

And while I understand that it's comforting to feel like pensions are rock solid. Well, pensions invest in the stock market too, and they need to do that in order to be able to fulfill their commitments. Municipal and State pension funds are by and large...already in trouble, very underfunded. This crisis is going to really hit those funds hard.

I'm just at the "it is what it is" phase at this point. But I'm afraid none of us is going to come out of this thing within taking some dings.
 
Oh, I agree that nothing is for certain. But you do eventually reach a point where absolutely everything would have to go wrong for you to cut back on lifestyle choices. Of course, it helps that your lifestyle choices aren't too extravagant to begin with. But, if you live in constant fear of multiple black swan events, you wind up investing in money market accounts and annuities.

P.S. I agree with you on state and municipal pensions. We don't have any, but DD24 is a teacher. Not only does she invest in her 403b, I think it is?, but she has also been socking away money in a Roth. I hope those become habits that will pay off for her, long after her dad and I are gone.
 
Oh, I agree that nothing is for certain. But you do eventually reach a point where absolutely everything would have to go wrong for you to cut back on lifestyle choices. Of course, it helps that your lifestyle choices aren't too extravagant to begin with. But, if you live in constant fear of multiple black swan events, you wind up investing in money market accounts and annuities.

P.S. I agree with you on state and municipal pensions. We don't have any, but DD24 is a teacher. Not only does she invest in her 403b, I think it is?, but she has also been socking away money in a Roth. I hope those become habits that will pay off for her, long after her dad and I are gone.

Completely agree with you. We can't live in fear. I think I have more a sadness over all of this and the ramifications of what is still coming, and not just from a virus standpoint.

I just wanted to bring up the pension thing because it's a big concern of mine and has been for awhile. DH and I don't have them, just our own retirement accounts/taxable accounts. But, as a society, if we have some muni-pensions or private pensions fail en masse...that hurts us all. I guess that was what I was trying to say.

I think this idea that the stock market will just rally on up to where it was in mid-February is crazy, because so many of our fellow Americans and our fellow global citizens are going to be hurting so badly during this time. This idea that millions and millions of Americans are already unemployed but that the Fortune 500 companies are going to skate free with great earnings....etc, well, I think it's just a fantasy. The idea of the stimulus, PPP and enhanced unemployment was supposed to "bridge the gap" until we were up and running again. But now we're understanding that money is coming fast enough, and that we aren't just ramping back up to 100% production as we were before. There's massive job destruction happening and it's getting worse by the day.

We'll also be fine at our house. My business is going to take a big hit for sure. Hopefully my husband will keep his job. Either way we have a big emergency fund and our investments because we've always been savers and are prepared. But this one, this whole thing does have me concerned for our nation.

Good for your daughter....she's doing everything right, and at her age I'd be investing each and every month throughout this whole crisis. And I'd be 100% S&P index fund. If only I was 30 years younger....sigh. Stay safe and good luck!
 
was afraid to log into my 401K. Looked yesterday and it currently indicated that I may encounter a shortfall in 2050. not as bad as I thought, gives me 30 years for the market to recover. Still lost a significant amount of money. The "formula" does not include the cash I have in the bank either.

I retired on March 20th, currently trying to live on my SS check.
 

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