Will you buy Poly 2 resale or direct?

[Sandisw]

I don’t know how typical we are of all Disney families (or DVC buyers) but Disney could not have convinced me to buy 350 direct points in 2023 if I thought the resale on those points would be worth less than half of what I paid for them within a few years…if a new trust is set up in a way that gives trust points priority over 7m SAP priority, I think resale values will take another huge leg down and sophisticated buyers won’t buy direct for (theoretical) access to other new resorts.

I am planning to hold BCV until expiration (and only use it at BCV or possibly BWV), and I suspect my VGF will do OK since it’s not going in the trust, but I am concerned that AUL resale points could take another big hit if, in the future, it gets harder to use them at WDW (for RIV and PVB, because the prime dates get booked with “trust points” at 8 or 9mo). I don’t have enough AUL points for the AUL specific trips my family wants to take, so it’s not an immediate worry—but I do think other families think like us and might just buy resale where they actually want to stay, vs. paying direct for a perk that may be taken away, diminished, or changed unpredictably.

But some here on the DiS place a lot more value or even consider resale value than the average buyer. We did not buy with that in mind

We saw that we could sell later and get some money back as a bonus but not a must. It’s why restrictions don’t bother us in the least.

We bought for use and it’s savings over cash stays and so far, we have gotten that and will continue to until we want out. Even giving it away at this point would still work out for us.

So, I think the shift eventually to a different model..and I think the signs are there it will shift at some point…will be something just as popular if it provides owners with a better value than cash stays.

 

[GGGT]

We are POLY 1 direct owners and will buy POLY 2 Direct for GV access. ("IF" the Tower will have GV's)

Edited to add: We'll buy POLY 2 Direct adding to POLY 1 if same association, or POLY 2 Direct as standalone points if separate association.

 

[MarkNC2Disney]

So is the conventional wisdom now that if I am a resale Poly owner, even if I purchased after 2019, I will still have home resort priority to the Poly tower? And direct poly tower owners won’t have resale restrictions?

 

[EYL]

I assume this is because you fear too much demand on non-studio accomodations at 11 months? Ironically VGF2 in reverse?

As a Poly1 owner, I actually fear the reverse. If the new Tower has an overall higher point chart and fewer studios, there could be more demand on the standard studios in the original longhouses. It seems that the majority would rather save on points to extend their stays. We prefer the longhouse location and are okay with studios, so I'm most likely in the minority in holding onto hope that it will be a separate association or that PVB1 and PVB2 will not share the same 11 months access to each other.

 

[maui22]

They have decided to classify the accommodations as deluxe and treat them as deluxe for evening hours.

The whole value, moderate, deluxe concept is Disneys and while yes, the complexes are different…it really goes to price more than anything else for the majority of the people who are cash paying guests

I do not personally see the cabins as a downgrade though and feel they are just as DVC deluxe as many of the other properties that are in the collection.

For me, it’s the rooms and not necessarily the location per se. That’s why some have said that RIVs location should downgrade it but in now way can you say that about that resort.

We shall see what happens in the future! I still wish we could get the answers soon so everyone knows all the rules for the new tower!

We agree on location and rooms.

If adding evening hours is enough to justify moving a resort from moderate to deluxe, Disney can easily change CBR, CSR, and POR to deluxe.

Not sure how many hotel guests would be willing to pay deluxe prices and stay at CBR, CSR, or POR for a deluxe evening hour addition.

Look at price per point and dues Disney is charging for CFW (only trust resort at present). I feel more content with all other WDW non-trust properties saving me money and providing more amenities.

We agree Disney needs to be more forthcoming on details. What they have done is harm the trust in the eyes of some of us. Regaining customer faith after a rollout of the trust takes considerable time and effort.

 

[Sandisw]

We agree on location and rooms.

If adding evening hours is enough to justify moving a resort from moderate to deluxe, Disney can easily change CBR, CSR, and POR to deluxe.

Not sure how many hotel guests would be willing to pay deluxe prices and stay at CBR, CSR, or POR for a deluxe evening hour addition.

Look at price per point and dues Disney is charging for CFW (only trust resort at present). I feel more content with all other WDW non-trust properties saving me money and providing more amenities.

We agree Disney needs to be more forthcoming on details. What they have done is harm the trust in the eyes of some of us. Regaining customer faith after a rollout of the trust takes considerable time and effort.

Its not just the evening hours....it is the 1 bedroom cabins that make those accomodations dexlue. The rooms at the moderate resorts are not...they do not have the kitchens, seperate living area, etc.

My point was that these cabins are an upgraded room type and because they are now DVC, they have decided to move them into the deluxe category and also, my guess, is they will be priced that way as well.

While the dues are high, the reflect the nature of the location and resort....may be an issue for some...but they also priced the cabins via points based on, its obvious, the lack of amenities we find in a true 1 bedroom villa...mainly more square footage and the washer/dryer. I didn't expect that but I think that is a big plus for them and IMO, they are a great addition to the portfolio of DVC resorts.

Will I buy there? No, because the drawbacks are the same as why I don't own and stay at AKV...not my cup of tea as a first choice...but staying at the cabins? I am sure we will try them. And, if they decide to move into a situation where there is an advantage to having your home resort as part of a trust system, then it increases my interest in future properties that could operate under this potential trust model.

 

[Sandisw]

So is the conventional wisdom now that if I am a resale Poly owner, even if I purchased after 2019, I will still have home resort priority to the Poly tower? And direct poly tower owners won’t have resale restrictions?

That is the big assumption that everyone is taking away from the announcement. However, there is language in the PVB POS that would allow them to create an entirely new vacation plan as part of that assocation that could very well mean the Poly tower comes in with different rules.

The other part of the statement did give them an out..."as of right now" and from many conversations I have had, I think that was purposeful and that the directive many have gotten from legal when answering statements about it is to tell people that things are subject to change until it is official.

So, I would say it seems that is more likely than not that those things will be true, but there is still a way that ends up not happening....and honestly, I won't be convinced until it is done and dusted with filings!

 

[maui22]

Its not just the evening hours....it is the 1 bedroom cabins that make those accomodations dexlue. The rooms at the moderate resorts are not...they do not have the kitchens, seperate living area, etc.

My point was that these cabins are an upgraded room type and because they are now DVC, they have decided to move them into the deluxe category and also, my guess, is they will be priced that way as well.

While the dues are high, the reflect the nature of the location and resort....may be an issue for some...but they also priced the cabins via points based on, its obvious, the lack of amenities we find in a true 1 bedroom villa...mainly more square footage and the washer/dryer. I didn't expect that but I think that is a big plus for them and IMO, they are a great addition to the portfolio of DVC resorts.

Will I buy there? No, because the drawbacks are the same as why I don't own and stay at AKV...not my cup of tea as a first choice...but staying at the cabins? I am sure we will try them. And, if they decide to move into a situation where there is an advantage to having your home resort as part of a trust system, then it increases my interest in future properties that could operate under this potential trust model.

Understand what you are saying, but the cabins being replaced had separate bedroom, kitchen, deck. Nothing significant changed for the cabin as far as I tell. Plenty of websites show the old cabins were classified as moderate by Disney for many years.

Edit: I believe they did make two modifications to the cabins. A full oven and a second sink.

 

[eticketplease]

Its not just the evening hours....it is the 1 bedroom cabins that make those accomodations dexlue. The rooms at the moderate resorts are not...they do not have the kitchens, seperate living area, etc.

My point was that these cabins are an upgraded room type and because they are now DVC, they have decided to move them into the deluxe category and also, my guess, is they will be priced that way as well.

While the dues are high, the reflect the nature of the location and resort....may be an issue for some...but they also priced the cabins via points based on, its obvious, the lack of amenities we find in a true 1 bedroom villa...mainly more square footage and the washer/dryer. I didn't expect that but I think that is a big plus for them and IMO, they are a great addition to the portfolio of DVC resorts.

Will I buy there? No, because the drawbacks are the same as why I don't own and stay at AKV...not my cup of tea as a first choice...but staying at the cabins? I am sure we will try them. And, if they decide to move into a situation where there is an advantage to having your home resort as part of a trust system, then it increases my interest in future properties that could operate under this potential trust model.

Disney classifies the resorts into categories not rooms.

Yes the cabin appears to have nicer finishes but it is still the same location with the same amenities.

The pool lacks theming imo and is not zero entry.

I would not classify the DVC resort at Ft. Wilderness as deluxe.

 

[eticketplease]

As a Poly1 owner, I actually fear the reverse. If the new Tower has an overall higher point chart and fewer studios, there could be more demand on the standard studios in the original longhouses. It seems that the majority would rather save on points to extend their stays. We prefer the longhouse location and are okay with studios, so I'm most likely in the minority in holding onto hope that it will be a separate association or that PVB1 and PVB2 will not share the same 11 months access to each other.

Right now Poly has the highest cost per night in a studio (at least when we visit).

I also fear that they will do like VGF and match the points the same as other studios and that the 1 & 2 BR will be up there in price per night as well.

I would love them to reallocate the point chart to accommodate the larger rooms but don't think that will happen.

If the studios are priced the same I think the longhouse will be harder to get as the ones in the tower will not have the second shower.

 

[Sandisw]

Disney classifies the resorts into categories not rooms.

Yes the cabin appears to have nicer finishes but it is still the same location with the same amenities.

The pool lacks theming imo and is not zero entry.

I would not classify the DVC resort at Ft. Wilderness as deluxe.

That’s okay. I simply do think it has elements of one.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

As a Poly1 owner, I actually fear the reverse. If the new Tower has an overall higher point chart and fewer studios, there could be more demand on the standard studios in the original longhouses. It seems that the majority would rather save on points to extend their stays. We prefer the longhouse location and are okay with studios, so I'm most likely in the minority in holding onto hope that it will be a separate association or that PVB1 and PVB2 will not share the same 11 months access to each other.

If it's part of the same association and has rooms that are designated studio the points will almost certainly match the existing. The history of CCV and VGF are the indicators even though CCV wasn't part of the existing VWL association. Other than 1, maybe 2 weeks (Dec) I feel pretty confident in saying you will never have an issue booking a standard view studio in the existing longhouses at 11 months. Even the 1 or 2 week, if you are booking right at the opening of the 11 month window you should be fine. Those are the toughest only because of the popularity of the dates and the # of fixed weeks sold for that time.

 

[eticketplease]

That’s okay. I simply do think it has elements of one.

We all have our opinions and I'm glad whether we agree or disagree we can share them with one another

 

[Sandisw]

We all have our opinions and I'm glad whether we agree or disagree we can share them with one another

Which is what makes DVC such a great product…it has places for everyone! My bank account sometimes wishes it didn’t! Lol

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

If it's part of the same association and has rooms that are designated studio the points will almost certainly match the existing. The history of CCV and VGF are the indicators even though CCV wasn't part of the existing VWL association. Other than 1, maybe 2 weeks (Dec) I feel pretty confident in saying you will never have an issue booking a standard view studio in the existing longhouses at 11 months. Even the 1 or 2 week, if you are booking right at the opening of the 11 month window you should be fine. Those are the toughest only because of the popularity of the dates and the # of fixed weeks sold for that time.

For many of us, booking at 11mo is not realistic (maybe we have placeholders but then we have to worry about kids plays or sporting tournaments or work obligations, etc.), so having to know 11m out is really tough and even 8mo out is a gamble. Luckily DVC lets you cancel a month or two out, but it’s still hard to rebook after the 7m mark. This is why being able to try our luck at many different resorts instead of only one resort adds a lot of value for us and we aren’t likely to buy restricted resale. I do worry that combining PVB with Tower points will make it hard to book longhouses at 10/9/8 months and nearly impossible to get more than a night or two at 7mo…but we don’t own there so this isn’t my hill to die on.

 

[eticketplease]

I do worry that combining PVB with Tower points will make it hard to book longhouses at 10/9/8 months and nearly impossible to get more than a night or two at 7mo…but we don’t own there so this isn’t my hill to die on.

I agree as I believe the longhouses will be more in demand than the studios being built with the tower. The tower ones seem smaller and we know they will only have room one shower compared to the two in the longhouses.

The longhouses will also be closer to the monorail via TTC

 

[Bearval]

I don’t know how typical we are of all Disney families (or DVC buyers) but Disney could not have convinced me to buy 350 direct points in 2023 if I thought the resale on those points would be worth less than half of what I paid for them within a few years…if a new trust is set up in a way that gives trust points priority over 7m SAP priority, I think resale values will take another huge leg down and sophisticated buyers won’t buy direct for (theoretical) access to other new resorts.

I am planning to hold BCV until expiration (and only use it at BCV or possibly BWV), and I suspect my VGF will do OK since it’s not going in the trust, but I am concerned that AUL resale points could take another big hit if, in the future, it gets harder to use them at WDW (for RIV and PVB, because the prime dates get booked with “trust points” at 8 or 9mo). I don’t have enough AUL points for the AUL specific trips my family wants to take, so it’s not an immediate worry—but I do think other families think like us and might just buy resale where they actually want to stay, vs. paying direct for a perk that may be taken away, diminished, or changed unpredictably.

I will be honest and first state I haven't been keeping up to date on the "trust" but would believe that the trust would have to following the same booking rules for the 11 and 7 month windows. If the trust only had say 10k AUL points then only 10k points could be booked between 7 and 11 months. If you were in the trust and those points were already used then you could only book a room after the 7 month window has opened and the trust would have to use points from another resort from inside the trust to book a room at AUL for you.

 

[DVCsloth]

Any chance Disney is planning something with the trust to include CFW with the new tower to help sell CFW since it seems to have no meaningful incentives?

 

[Sandisw]

I will be honest and first state I haven't been keeping up to date on the "trust" but would believe that the trust would have to following the same booking rules for the 11 and 7 month windows. If the trust only had say 10k AUL points then only 10k points could be booked between 7 and 11 months. If you were in the trust and those points were already used then you could only book a room after the 7 month window has opened and the trust would have to use points from another resort from inside the trust to book a room at AUL for you.

From everything I have read and the trust documents themselves they can’t put in partial units or parts. They can only add inventory that they own in full. Thst is why only undeclared units at currently selling resorts would even be eligible. So, current owners units can’t be combined.

The other aspect is that property is declared to the trust and then activated for use under a trust use plan. DVD retains ownership of the property at all times.

The only plan right now is the cabins right to use one and the only rooms are the cabins. Because of that they kept the 11/7 windows but just like us, they are guaranteed only one month for the rooms in that use plan.

The big change with the trust is that they can activate rooms at different component sites under the same use plan and those now can become your home resort.

But they can also make multiple use plans for different component sites as well and could certainly make whatever trading rules they want for those properties.

Trading out of the trust will be via BVTC like the rest of DVC resorts.

Thst is why I am confident we will not see any current resorts being sold via the trust model.

For Poly tower? While I think it’s less likely they will involve the trust for this project, given the announcement, I still am not 100% sure what is going to happen.

 

[Sandisw]

Any chance Disney is planning something with the trust to include CFW with the new tower to help sell CFW since it seems to have no meaningful incentives?

No specific info to that effect but I can say with strong confidence that the trust was not set up to sell only the cabins.

And that we will see future projects involved. The one reason I am still not 100% convinced they are just going to add to PVB and sell as normal is that the incentives for the cabins were simply not great and makes me wonder if the reasons could be a pairing with Poly tower in some way.