Covid 19 WBPC cruise

[BartmanLA]

All the debating seemingly over semantic about when and who knew what is reaching a futile point. Personally I feel it's time to close this thread to curtail any Monday night quarterbacking. JMHO.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

I wouldn't say you're wrong, because maybe in your area of the US you are correct, but I can say for sure in the Philadelphia/South Jersey area this is simply not true. You need to have symptoms. They don't need to be severe. You can't just walk in and say my sister has Covid so I'm curious if I do too.
Also not everyone who is positive shows symptoms at all. I work in a large teaching hospital in radiology. One of my coworkers was telling me yesterday her throat felt scratchy and lost her sense of smell. I have terrible allergies and have these symptoms all the time. She had no fever, no cough and no shortness of breath. I am not an alarmist so I told her it's probably allergies, after all spring came early this year. Our trees look like early May right now. Since she had carpooled with another coworker who was awaiting test results, she reported her seemingly minor symptoms to Employee Health. They did the rapid 6 hr test and it came back positive. By last night she said her chest felt achy when taking a deep breath.
Today I am feeling fatigued & brain fog, 3 coworkers have a low fever. Many others have scratchy throats. They ordered testing on all of us. As of now they are reserving the rapid 6 hour tests for ER and critical care (ICU) staff which I feel is very reasonable. We work in breast imaging so it's important for those going through breast cancer treatment right now or someone with a palpable mass, but for 95% of the rest of our pts, they can wait a month or 2. I don't think for a minute that we are as important right now as those actually taking care of Covid pts.
So I'll find out in 2-5 days. In the meantime, we're all put out of work next week pending results.

Yes, I'm well aware that some who carry the virus exhibit no symptoms, but we'll never know if they had it because they won't be tested - not sure how that is relevant to my comment.

So, according to your own account (in bold), they are rationing them in your area - you are only receiving one because you were in direct contact with someone who just tested positive who, in turn, had carpooled with someone awaiting results (not sure why that person wasn't already in self-quarantine). My best friend is a doctor in Westchester County. Yes, they are rationing tests in our area. A friend of mine in NYC just tested positive yesterday after exhibiting severe symptoms for two weeks. They finally tested him. I had symptoms about 4 weeks ago and they refused to test me for Covid-19 as, at the time, I did not fit the criteria. Prior to my ever walking into the exam room, however, they already had a strep test set up for me - why? because they aren't rationing those. No matter how you slice it, there are not enough tests, hence, rationing.

 

[gometros]

Specific information about the health status of some passengers has been shared. Whether you think it’s information people should have is irrelevant if permission was not given to share it publicly.

Agreed. This information is coming from a private FB group and shared there for the benefit of fellow cruisers. If you were not given permission to bring it outside of the group, whether or not names were mentioned, then don't.

 

[drclaws]

Agreed. This information is coming from a private FB group and shared there for the benefit of fellow cruisers. If you were not given permission to bring it outside of the group, whether or not names were mentioned, then don't.

Agreed. This information is coming from a private FB group and shared there for the benefit of fellow cruisers. If you were not given permission to bring it outside of the group, whether or not names were mentioned, then don't.

Was on the cruise and agree 100%

 

[FWRR3]

Well, this is interesting. The CDC lists the Disney Wonder cruise of 2/28-3/2 (wrong departure date) under "Cruise Ships Affected by Covid-19":

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/cruise-ship/what-cdc-is-doing.html

 

[FWRR3]

For my above post, the fine print under the table indicates that no cases were reported on board, just after leaving the ship. But they must be behind because they don't list the canal cruise to San Diego.

 

[o&smom]

Well, this is interesting. The CDC lists the Disney Wonder cruise of 2/28-3/2 (wrong departure date) under "Cruise Ships Affected by Covid-19":

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/cruise-ship/what-cdc-is-doing.html

Yes, this has been discussed with a woman in Mississippi testing positive after taking that cruise out of New Orleans. Thanks for posting the CDC listing.

 

[Adventurelawyer]

Well, this is interesting. The CDC lists the Disney Wonder cruise of 2/28-3/2 (wrong departure date) under "Cruise Ships Affected by Covid-19":

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/cruise-ship/what-cdc-is-doing.html

That cruise has a positive test as well. The info about the WBPC hasn’t been reported widely. TBH, the info on the 2/28 sailing wasn’t widely reported either, though it was in the news.

 

[FWRR3]

KGTV in San Diego reported today (about cruise ships in San Diego):

"The only ship that has had positive coronavirus cases is the Disney Wonder, which arrived in San Diego nearly two weeks ago. One passenger and one crew member who each tested positive are currently hospitalized, McDonald said. There are also two pending cases related to the ship and was one emergency evacuation from the ship. "

 

[BartmanLA]

KGTV in San Diego reported today (about cruise ships in San Diego):

"The only ship that has had positive coronavirus cases is the Disney Wonder, which arrived in San Diego nearly two weeks ago. One passenger and one crew member who each tested positive are currently hospitalized, McDonald said. There are also two pending cases related to the ship and was one emergency evacuation from the ship. "

The emergency evac was after the ship left Grand Cayman and was not CoVid-19 related so "including" person in the group isn't proper. And there hasn't been any indication that anyone on board during the WBPC itinerary was actually sick before they disembarked, since no one identified as sick or was tested before they got off. Most likely those that tested positive subsequently contracted it in transit home. And the crew members that eventually tested positive could very well have come in contact with it from people shoreside and developed symptoms during the 2 weeks since they arrived in SD.

 

[mab2012]

The emergency evac was after the ship left Grand Cayman and was not CoVid-19 related so "including" person in the group isn't proper. And there hasn't been any indication that anyone on board during the WBPC itinerary was actually sick before they disembarked, since no one identified as sick or was tested before they got off. Most likely those that tested positive subsequently contracted it in transit home. And the crew members that eventually tested positive could very well have come in contact with it from people shoreside and developed symptoms during the 2 weeks since they arrived in SD.

Without getting into specifics that could violate anyone's privacy, it is pretty clear by now that COVID-19 was circulating onboard during the last few days of the cruise. How widely or freely is less clear.

My guess at this point is that the original carrier (or carriers, but one seems more likely), was probably exposed before boarding in New Orleans, and remained both asymptomatic and non-contagious for the majority of the cruise. Sometime late in the cruise that unknown individual may have developed mild symptoms, or possibly just became somewhat infectious with no symptoms at all, and unwittingly transferred it to a handful of others, who then began to develop symptoms themselves either just before or just after debarking.

Exposure in Cozumel or Cayman was also possible, but less likely, considering that the number of cases in those areas remains low even now.

Of course this is all just a theory, but it's the only plausible explanation I can come up with that fits both the evidence at hand and what we now know, or at least think we know, about how this virus spreads.

I don't think anyone was to blame, or did anything wrong. Not DCL, not those who may have been infected but almost certainly didn't have any reasonable cause to suspect it while onboard, and not the passengers who chose to board in the first place or had the audacity to enjoy themselves once they were there. We were all making the most reasonable decisions we could based on what we knew at the time, which of course was very different from what we know now.

 

[ScooterScott44]

The emergency evac was after the ship left Grand Cayman and was not CoVid-19 related so "including" person in the group isn't proper. And there hasn't been any indication that anyone on board during the WBPC itinerary was actually sick before they disembarked, since no one identified as sick or was tested before they got off. Most likely those that tested positive subsequently contracted it in transit home. And the crew members that eventually tested positive could very well have come in contact with it from people shoreside and developed symptoms during the 2 weeks since they arrived in SD.

You can’t say with confidence that the transmission happened on the transit home. I am following this thread since I loved our PC cruise, have a friend that is a Panama Canal pilot and I was traveling home from work in the San Diego airport with many of the guests from the Wonder. (Yes, you were pretty obvious and very easy to spot.)

The San Diego airport was unbelievably empty that day so social distancing was very easy, except for key times and places such as boarding. I did have some allergy symptoms after being in SoCal and traveling home so had some concerns. Since me and my family were participating in a university study for Coronavirus testing the Tuesday after my return, we did not have to worry about testing it was being done. We were negative. Based on the theory that travel home was the source, I should be positive also. So just pointing out that even though travel home was a risk for viral exposure, it is not the only risk to those on the WBPC. I am not blaming anyone but it is pure speculation to point to the source of an exposure from one source when there is a valid potential source.

 

[Lisa F]

My guess at this point is that the original carrier (or carriers, but one seems more likely), was probably exposed before boarding in New Orleans, and remained both asymptomatic and non-contagious for the majority of the cruise. Sometime late in the cruise that unknown individual may have developed mild symptoms, or possibly just became somewhat infectious with no symptoms at all, and unwittingly transferred it to a handful of others, who then began to develop symptoms themselves either just before or just after debarking.

you are still contagious while asymptomatic, that is part of what is so dangerous about this. And it can take 8-10 days (or more, which is why quarantines are recommended for 14 days) for symptoms to show up and you are still contagious that whole time. But if people are being extra vigilant about hand washing it might not spread as quickly as otherwise - the most likely vector of transmission is you touching a surface that is contaminated then transferring it via mucous membrane before washing it off of your hands. The other possibility is droplets that are released while breathing, which is why the 6' distance is recommended as part of social distancing and also why sharing a dinner table with someone who tested positive is especially worrrisome. Coughing/sneezing will send droplets on a way wider trajectory including to land on surfaces where the virus can live for days while everyone else touches it.

I don't believe there is any evidence of research to support that anyone who is positive for the virus is not contagious at any point in the process, whether they remain asymptomatic or not. That is why it is so important for people to be staying home even if you are not sick, you don't know if you are carrying and spreading it.

@EPeel how are you? I'm sorry you are in such a scary situation - try not to be too hard on yourself for your decisions, this entire country was making decisions in the dark during a crucial time. Hopefully the people who are to blame will be brought to justice when the dust clears.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...ey-wonder-passenger-crew-member-test-positive
They have at least 5CMs in quarantine now.

 

[ScooterScott44]

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...ey-wonder-passenger-crew-member-test-positive
They have at least 5CMs in quarantine now.

Thanks for the article. So the emergency evacuation referenced does NOT seem to be the passenger in Grand Cayman.

The statement seems to indicate that this is a crew member that was removed, likely after the guests debarked and the ship has been in San Diego. I’m not saying that the evacuation was an actual Covid case but to clarify the medical evac while sailing and this appear to be different events.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

The statement seems to indicate that this is a crew member that was removed, likely after the guests debarked and the ship has been in San Diego.

Yeah. SD has been decent about allowing controlled disembarkation for stranded ships, but it sounds like they're now drawing the line. It is now "no one disembarks regardless of disease status."

 

[mab2012]

you are still contagious while asymptomatic, that is part of what is so dangerous about this. And it can take 8-10 days (or more, which is why quarantines are recommended for 14 days) for symptoms to show up and you are still contagious that whole time. But if people are being extra vigilant about hand washing it might not spread as quickly as otherwise - the most likely vector of transmission is you touching a surface that is contaminated then transferring it via mucous membrane before washing it off of your hands.

There's a lot of misinformation about this virus, and a lot we still just don't know.

It's understood that pre-symptomatic and mildly symptomatic transmission are possible and occurring. Transmission by someone who remains completely asymptomatic is likely also possible. Current studies are suggesting that transmission can start occurring a few days before symptom onset. It's not really clear what that means for the transmissibility of wholly asymptomatic cases, but it's unreasonable to assume they are infectious immediately. The reason people are told to stay home for 14 days is because nobody can know when (or if) symptoms, and therefore pre-symptomatic transmission, might start. That doesn't mean they are actively contagious the whole time.

As for surface transmission being the "most likely" vector - so far the CDC says otherwise.

Looking at the cruise specifically, it is just not realistic to believe that someone came onto the ship with this virus on day 1 (or even on the day 3/4 port stops), immediately started transmitting it freely, and yet nobody started noticing symptoms until the last day or two of the cruise. The median incubation period of the virus is thought to be about 5 days. That means half of all cases will develop symptoms by day 5. If this was being freely transmitted onboard early on, at least some of those cases would have started showing up by midway through the cruise, and it would have multiplied from there.

Actually this is exactly the assumption that had many of us convinced that the ship was in the clear. We assumed that if someone had brought it onboard, others would be showing symptoms, whether the the original carrier was symptomatic or not. Nobody was allowing for the likelihood that a single carrier might remain non-contagious for much of the trip before the infection would start to spread. But it's the only explanation I can see that is consistent with what we now know. At least until "what we know" changes yet again.

 

[o&smom]

Just got diagnosed with Covid 19. Two days after we got home I had symptoms of a sinus infection which I often get after traveling from ac. No fever, no body aches, no trouble breathing. I only started to think it might be something else on Tues and Wed of this week. In the afternoon of both days I got the chills, not a fever, just the chills. We found out our table mates had really bad symptoms with fevers and trouble breathing this past week. Their doctor recommended not getting tested. Hope all our travel mates are doing well. Stay healthy.

 

[gometros]

Just got diagnosed with Covid 19. Two days after we got home I had symptoms of a sinus infection which I often get after traveling from ac. No fever, no body aches, no trouble breathing. I only started to think it might be something else on Tues and Wed of this week. In the afternoon of both days I got the chills, not a fever, just the chills. We found out our table mates had really bad symptoms with fevers and trouble breathing this past week. Their doctor recommended not getting tested. Hope all our travel mates are doing well. Stay healthy.

Praying for you that it's a mild case and you recover quickly.

 

[o&smom]

Praying for you that it's a mild case and you recover quickly.

Thank you. Yes, so mild and not what you hear to look for that I had NO idea!